Wild Thing
5 year old buck +
That has been my experience as well Rocknstumps, with the Northern Red Oak. They grow very well here but it takes them a few years longer than the White Oaks to produce acorns.
The Year of the Oaks
- Thread starter Native Hunter
- Start date
That has been my experience as well Rocknstumps, with the Northern Red Oak. They grow very well here but it takes them a few years longer than the White Oaks to produce acorns.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Not all of the Burs have kept up with that one. The white pines have beat most of the others. I have some red oaks family trees that must be 60 feet tall by now. Will cover those in future posts.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
I would want a few for the sake of diversity if you have room for them.
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Post Oak is the only native white oak on my property.
Indeed, my ecoregion is named Post Oak Savannah
They do not seem to be prolific producers of acorns
Most of my property is bottomland and covered with willow and water oaks
I have a few Bur Oak and White Oakseedlings that I started from seed pushing 7 feet now
bill
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Here is one of about 5 trees I think could be a hybrid of some kind - or something I've never heard of. It started leafing out before any of the others, and there is not another tree in the entire planting that looks like it. Feel free to save me some time and ID it if you can.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
That depends on a lot of factors, but if you see something you want for less than $3,000 per acre you had better buy it fast or it will be gone shortly.
There are several farms out in the country that are nothing special that the bourbon distillers wanted. $10,000 per acre no sweat.
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Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Chinkapin Oak - Quercus muehlenbergii
I’m finding a lot of Chinkapin Oaks in my planting. This is a species that typically grows in dryer soils with limestone bedrock. The ones in the drier areas on my property are really doing great. The ones in the wetter spots have not grown as large as the ones in the better ground, but they still look very healthy.
The best ones are around 35 feet tall after 15-17 years and around 9 or 10 inches in diameter at the ground line. Below are some facts about the Chinkapin Oak:
· The acorns are at the top of the food preference list for many wildlife species. They ripen early and are very low in tannin. Some sources say that many trees will have acorns that humans can eat without leaching.
· I love this species and have noticed a few acorns in past years on some that I’ve passed by at the edge of the planting. Note – in the past I have not ventured out into the planting in the fall, because it is a sanctuary area.
· Does best in well-drained soil and adapts to many different soil types. Will grow well in higher PH soils than most other oaks.
· The chinkapin oak is also commonly referred to as a yellow chestnut oak, rock oak or yellow oak.
· The bark is very distinctive and has a yellow cast.
· Many leaves hang on through the winter, but not like Sawtooths.
· Hardiness Zones 4–7
· This is a very easy tree for me to ID – even in the winter. The bark and leaves are very distinct. The leaves resemble Swamp Chestnut Oak but they are much smaller.
· Starts greening up very quickly in spring.
Here is the USDA link:
Quercus muehlenbergii Engelm (usda.gov)
This is a nice one at the edge of the planting at a dry location. As you can see, it has outgrown the white pine next to it that was planted about the same time.
Here is another nice one near the one above. This tree is large and beautiful. This may be the one I remember seeing acorns on.
This picture shows the new emerging leaves and the bark. These leaves will look very similar when mature, just larger.
This is about average for the better trees:
This is a Chinkapin Oak surrounded by 6 Pin Oaks. One of the Pin Oaks is smaller than the CO, but another one is exceptionally larger. The other 4 are only slightly larger than the CO. You can see two of the Pin Oaks in the background and the CO in the foreground.
That’s about it guys except for one more thing – pretty sure that I’ve found some Dwarf Chinkapin Oaks (Quercus prinoides). I’ve been researching how to distinguish them from Q muehlenbergii, and when the leaves mature, I will report back on this - but let me know if you have any special keys on telling them apart other than size.
I’m finding a lot of Chinkapin Oaks in my planting. This is a species that typically grows in dryer soils with limestone bedrock. The ones in the drier areas on my property are really doing great. The ones in the wetter spots have not grown as large as the ones in the better ground, but they still look very healthy.
The best ones are around 35 feet tall after 15-17 years and around 9 or 10 inches in diameter at the ground line. Below are some facts about the Chinkapin Oak:
· The acorns are at the top of the food preference list for many wildlife species. They ripen early and are very low in tannin. Some sources say that many trees will have acorns that humans can eat without leaching.
· I love this species and have noticed a few acorns in past years on some that I’ve passed by at the edge of the planting. Note – in the past I have not ventured out into the planting in the fall, because it is a sanctuary area.
· Does best in well-drained soil and adapts to many different soil types. Will grow well in higher PH soils than most other oaks.
· The chinkapin oak is also commonly referred to as a yellow chestnut oak, rock oak or yellow oak.
· The bark is very distinctive and has a yellow cast.
· Many leaves hang on through the winter, but not like Sawtooths.
· Hardiness Zones 4–7
· This is a very easy tree for me to ID – even in the winter. The bark and leaves are very distinct. The leaves resemble Swamp Chestnut Oak but they are much smaller.
· Starts greening up very quickly in spring.
Here is the USDA link:
Quercus muehlenbergii Engelm (usda.gov)
This is a nice one at the edge of the planting at a dry location. As you can see, it has outgrown the white pine next to it that was planted about the same time.
Here is another nice one near the one above. This tree is large and beautiful. This may be the one I remember seeing acorns on.
This picture shows the new emerging leaves and the bark. These leaves will look very similar when mature, just larger.
This is about average for the better trees:
This is a Chinkapin Oak surrounded by 6 Pin Oaks. One of the Pin Oaks is smaller than the CO, but another one is exceptionally larger. The other 4 are only slightly larger than the CO. You can see two of the Pin Oaks in the background and the CO in the foreground.
That’s about it guys except for one more thing – pretty sure that I’ve found some Dwarf Chinkapin Oaks (Quercus prinoides). I’ve been researching how to distinguish them from Q muehlenbergii, and when the leaves mature, I will report back on this - but let me know if you have any special keys on telling them apart other than size.
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Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
In a few weeks when the leaves fully mature, we will get some new pictures of all the species covered to date.
Been out of pocket for a bit. Looks like I'm behind...
Oaks of North America, by Miller & Lamb, is probably one of the best all-around texts devoted solely to oaks. Good info on identification, habit, habitat, etc.
I've spent more time working with and planting Bur oak that probably any other oak species. Have a collection of seedlings grown from across its native range, from TX to Manitoba. Tremendous variation within that species... Leaf morphology varies, with some having deeper sinuses than others, but all unmistakably say 'Bur oak!' Some have little to no 'cork' on branches. Acorn size varies widely... I have one AL selection that makes acorns that run in the range of 6-8/lb(with caps removed), but trees from Manitoba make tiny little acorns, in the range of 100/lb. There are some strains (Q.macrocarpa subsp. mandanensis, IIRC) that lack the frilly fringe on the cap; some I have have little to no fringe, others are incredibly ornate.
Bur oaks have, consistently, been the fastest-growing oaks I've planted, consistently putting on anywhere from 2-4 ft of growth per year for the first 15-20 years. Acorn production has usually commenced between 6 and 10 years from acorn sprouting.
Chinkapin oaks here are most prevalent on droughty limestone outcrops. Tiny little acorns that germinate very soon after dropping. Chinkapin oak acorns have the highest oil content of any of the white oak species... but still way less than any of the red/black oak group.
Oaks of North America, by Miller & Lamb, is probably one of the best all-around texts devoted solely to oaks. Good info on identification, habit, habitat, etc.
I've spent more time working with and planting Bur oak that probably any other oak species. Have a collection of seedlings grown from across its native range, from TX to Manitoba. Tremendous variation within that species... Leaf morphology varies, with some having deeper sinuses than others, but all unmistakably say 'Bur oak!' Some have little to no 'cork' on branches. Acorn size varies widely... I have one AL selection that makes acorns that run in the range of 6-8/lb(with caps removed), but trees from Manitoba make tiny little acorns, in the range of 100/lb. There are some strains (Q.macrocarpa subsp. mandanensis, IIRC) that lack the frilly fringe on the cap; some I have have little to no fringe, others are incredibly ornate.
Bur oaks have, consistently, been the fastest-growing oaks I've planted, consistently putting on anywhere from 2-4 ft of growth per year for the first 15-20 years. Acorn production has usually commenced between 6 and 10 years from acorn sprouting.
Chinkapin oaks here are most prevalent on droughty limestone outcrops. Tiny little acorns that germinate very soon after dropping. Chinkapin oak acorns have the highest oil content of any of the white oak species... but still way less than any of the red/black oak group.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Good info on the variation in the bur oaks. I’ve also noticed one without the corky bark. I thought it might be a hybrid but will keep an eye on it as the year goes on.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Well, the freeze burned the leaves on a bunch of the oaks, so I'm going to wait a few weeks before moving on to looking at more of them. Most of the ones left are in the Red Oak Family, and those are a little tougher to ID without mature leaves.
Stay tuned and we will be back to looking at more species before too long.
Stay tuned and we will be back to looking at more species before too long.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Black Oak - Quercus velutina
I’m going to get started back with an oak from the Red Oak Family - Black Oak - Quercus velutina. This is a tree that is fairly easy to identify among the red oaks. Some facts and features:
I estimate that maybe 5% - 10% of my red oak family trees are Black Oak. I didn’t order these but glad to have a few in the mix.
The bark is very dark (almost black).
The bark is very high in tannin. Black Oak has been used as a source of tannin for industrial purposes.
The leaves are highly variable, but somewhat resemble the leaves of Northern Red Oak.
You can chip away some of the outer bark and see an orangish or yellowish color underneath. I have a picture below of this. This is caused by the high tannin content.
Black Oak tends to have somewhat more of a tapered bole than most other red oak family member. This is not extremely prominent, but it is noticible.
There is nothing really special about the acorns in terms of deer, but they are probably about average in terms of preference for the red oak family.
I like having several Black Oaks due to the diversity that they add to the planting.
They are growing almost as fast as Pin Oak, but not quite as much in my damp soil. I’m seeing some Black Oaks that are over 40 feet tall and 12 + inches at the base. Even though they normally grow in drier soils, they are adapting well to my location.
Here is a good link from UK: Black Oak | Department of Horticulture (uky.edu)
Another good link: https://www.backyardnature.net/n/w/blackoak.htm
In the picture below, note the orangish coloration under the outer bark, which indicates the high tannin content of this species:
In the next picture, you see a Black Oak of about average size in my planting. I would estimate this one 40+ feet tall.
Another big one at the edge of the planting:
This is a picture of the bark. Some of the trees are even blacker than this one. You can somewhat see the tapering of the bole
Some Leaves:
That’s about it for Black Oak guys. I will post up another species in a few days. Take Care……
I’m going to get started back with an oak from the Red Oak Family - Black Oak - Quercus velutina. This is a tree that is fairly easy to identify among the red oaks. Some facts and features:
I estimate that maybe 5% - 10% of my red oak family trees are Black Oak. I didn’t order these but glad to have a few in the mix.
The bark is very dark (almost black).
The bark is very high in tannin. Black Oak has been used as a source of tannin for industrial purposes.
The leaves are highly variable, but somewhat resemble the leaves of Northern Red Oak.
You can chip away some of the outer bark and see an orangish or yellowish color underneath. I have a picture below of this. This is caused by the high tannin content.
Black Oak tends to have somewhat more of a tapered bole than most other red oak family member. This is not extremely prominent, but it is noticible.
There is nothing really special about the acorns in terms of deer, but they are probably about average in terms of preference for the red oak family.
I like having several Black Oaks due to the diversity that they add to the planting.
They are growing almost as fast as Pin Oak, but not quite as much in my damp soil. I’m seeing some Black Oaks that are over 40 feet tall and 12 + inches at the base. Even though they normally grow in drier soils, they are adapting well to my location.
Here is a good link from UK: Black Oak | Department of Horticulture (uky.edu)
Another good link: https://www.backyardnature.net/n/w/blackoak.htm
In the picture below, note the orangish coloration under the outer bark, which indicates the high tannin content of this species:
In the next picture, you see a Black Oak of about average size in my planting. I would estimate this one 40+ feet tall.
Another big one at the edge of the planting:
This is a picture of the bark. Some of the trees are even blacker than this one. You can somewhat see the tapering of the bole
Some Leaves:
That’s about it for Black Oak guys. I will post up another species in a few days. Take Care……
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Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
Pin Oak - Quercus palustris
Today we will look at Pin Oaks, which are another Red Oak Family species that is easy to identify. Some facts and features:
This species is probably familiar to many people because of how extensively it has been used in landscaping. The beautiful form and drooping branches have made it very popular.
Pin Oaks are easily transplanted due to their shallow root systems.
They are extremely fast growers. They put on a lot of height each year. Some of my trees are 60+ feet tall in 17 years.
Pin Oaks are not native on my farm. Before my tree planting, I had never seen one in the wild. However, the soil seems to be very well suited for them. My location is within the native range of the tree, but near the edge of the range.
They prefer areas with hydric soils like much of my planting is. However, they are very adaptable and will grow in a wide variety of soils.
I estimate that probably 10% - 20% of my red oak family trees are Pin Oaks.
You will find varying information on the Internet about the preference of Pin Oak acorns for deer. Some people rate them at the top and very high on the list for Red Oak acorns, but others rate them lower. This is likely due to regional differences and the availability of other foods more than anything else.
Pin Oak is not a great lumber tree due to the knottiness of the wood and a tendency to warp. However, it is a great wildlife tree for both cover and food.
Here is the USDA link for Pin Oak: Quercus palustris Muenchh (usda.gov)
Here is another good link: Pin Oak | Department of Horticulture (uky.edu)
Here is a picture of a big one out in the planting a few yards. This tree looks to me to be at least 65 feet tall, if not taller:
This is the base of that tree:
Note the dead limbs that have been shaded out but still hanging on. This is typical of Pin Oak:
Here is a short and wide one at the edge of the planting that hangs out over a spot where I had a food plot last fall. The deer started making scrapes under this tree, and the next thing I knew, there was a scrape that was 12 feet long, where they all joined together:
Leaves of Pin Oak:
That’s about it for Pin Oak. Another species to come in a few days. However, today you get some bonus pictures. I couldn’t help but contrast the huge shade leaves (15 inches long) on one of my Bur Oaks with the Overcup Oak that is just now barely beginning to make leaves. The two pictures below were taken on the same day of 5-19-21. Enjoy.
Today we will look at Pin Oaks, which are another Red Oak Family species that is easy to identify. Some facts and features:
This species is probably familiar to many people because of how extensively it has been used in landscaping. The beautiful form and drooping branches have made it very popular.
Pin Oaks are easily transplanted due to their shallow root systems.
They are extremely fast growers. They put on a lot of height each year. Some of my trees are 60+ feet tall in 17 years.
Pin Oaks are not native on my farm. Before my tree planting, I had never seen one in the wild. However, the soil seems to be very well suited for them. My location is within the native range of the tree, but near the edge of the range.
They prefer areas with hydric soils like much of my planting is. However, they are very adaptable and will grow in a wide variety of soils.
I estimate that probably 10% - 20% of my red oak family trees are Pin Oaks.
You will find varying information on the Internet about the preference of Pin Oak acorns for deer. Some people rate them at the top and very high on the list for Red Oak acorns, but others rate them lower. This is likely due to regional differences and the availability of other foods more than anything else.
Pin Oak is not a great lumber tree due to the knottiness of the wood and a tendency to warp. However, it is a great wildlife tree for both cover and food.
Here is the USDA link for Pin Oak: Quercus palustris Muenchh (usda.gov)
Here is another good link: Pin Oak | Department of Horticulture (uky.edu)
Here is a picture of a big one out in the planting a few yards. This tree looks to me to be at least 65 feet tall, if not taller:
This is the base of that tree:
Note the dead limbs that have been shaded out but still hanging on. This is typical of Pin Oak:
Here is a short and wide one at the edge of the planting that hangs out over a spot where I had a food plot last fall. The deer started making scrapes under this tree, and the next thing I knew, there was a scrape that was 12 feet long, where they all joined together:
Leaves of Pin Oak:
That’s about it for Pin Oak. Another species to come in a few days. However, today you get some bonus pictures. I couldn’t help but contrast the huge shade leaves (15 inches long) on one of my Bur Oaks with the Overcup Oak that is just now barely beginning to make leaves. The two pictures below were taken on the same day of 5-19-21. Enjoy.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Dont know much about pin oak but looked down at my foot and thought "yep that's a muckster, same color too"
blueKYstream
5 year old buck +
I have a 16 or 17 year old pin oak in my yard. They hold their leaves well into the winter. No acorns to date. Mine has put on between 2 to 2.5 feet of growth a year. There was some things you mentioned I didn't realize about the pin oak. Thanks!
Pin oak is/was a nurseryman's dream - Very easy to grow from readily available acorns, grows fairly rapidly, but is very amenable to transplanting as quite a sizeable tree as a B&B specimen, acorns are small enough that homeowners are less likely to complain about them than larger-fruited selections such as bur oak or northern red oak. Some have very respectable red fall color.
High pH soils are not generally an issue here, but in areas where soil pH is high, pin oak will struggle, and leaves may be chlorotic.
In my area, pin oak has been widely planted as a 'landscape' tree in residential, commercial, and urban streetside settings since at least the early 1970s... almost to the point of a 'monoculture' planting. I'd hazard a guess that 95+% of oaks planted in the urban/suburban landscape here in the last 50 years were pin oaks. Not really all that suitable. long-term, for small residential lots, for a variety of reasons... they rapidly get to be very large trees, its downsweeping lower limbs are 'eye-pokers', and if you limb them up, the next tier sweeps down to take their place, resulting in the need to lion's tail/lollipop them, such that they soon look 'out of scale' with many homes.
Near-monoculture planting as we've seen here, can be disastrous if/when diseases/pests arrive... gouty/horned stem/branch gall wasps and bacterial leaf scorch have delivered a one-two punch to 40+ yr old pin oaks in yards and up and down boulevards, resulting in them declining and dying over a 5-10 yr period, requiring removal. It's not at all unusual to see trees that look very much like the one in this photo:
Those galls essentially girdle twigs/branches, and will eventually result in the demise of the tree.
Kinda reminds me of a discussion I had recently with a friend who is a 2nd generation UofIL grad... when his mom was in school there, elms were the predominant street tree... Dutch Elm Disease eliminated them; they replaced them with White Ash, which were dominant when he was in school there 30 yrs ago. Now, Emerald Ash Borer is either taking them out or requiring continued insecticide treatment to keep those Ash trees alive. Perhaps they'll opt not to replace them with pin oaks.
There are several big, old pin oaks in my mixed hardwood forest. Most are free of stem/branch galls, but there is one tree, down on the creekbank that is infected... but as there's a very diverse population of trees in woods here, I'm not overly concerned about significant impact from them.
High pH soils are not generally an issue here, but in areas where soil pH is high, pin oak will struggle, and leaves may be chlorotic.
In my area, pin oak has been widely planted as a 'landscape' tree in residential, commercial, and urban streetside settings since at least the early 1970s... almost to the point of a 'monoculture' planting. I'd hazard a guess that 95+% of oaks planted in the urban/suburban landscape here in the last 50 years were pin oaks. Not really all that suitable. long-term, for small residential lots, for a variety of reasons... they rapidly get to be very large trees, its downsweeping lower limbs are 'eye-pokers', and if you limb them up, the next tier sweeps down to take their place, resulting in the need to lion's tail/lollipop them, such that they soon look 'out of scale' with many homes.
Near-monoculture planting as we've seen here, can be disastrous if/when diseases/pests arrive... gouty/horned stem/branch gall wasps and bacterial leaf scorch have delivered a one-two punch to 40+ yr old pin oaks in yards and up and down boulevards, resulting in them declining and dying over a 5-10 yr period, requiring removal. It's not at all unusual to see trees that look very much like the one in this photo:
Those galls essentially girdle twigs/branches, and will eventually result in the demise of the tree.
Kinda reminds me of a discussion I had recently with a friend who is a 2nd generation UofIL grad... when his mom was in school there, elms were the predominant street tree... Dutch Elm Disease eliminated them; they replaced them with White Ash, which were dominant when he was in school there 30 yrs ago. Now, Emerald Ash Borer is either taking them out or requiring continued insecticide treatment to keep those Ash trees alive. Perhaps they'll opt not to replace them with pin oaks.
There are several big, old pin oaks in my mixed hardwood forest. Most are free of stem/branch galls, but there is one tree, down on the creekbank that is infected... but as there's a very diverse population of trees in woods here, I'm not overly concerned about significant impact from them.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
I saw some pin oaks at a rest stop on an interstate once that were absolutely massive. I wondered how old they were but had no way of finding out. All I could think about was some of the small yards I had seen the pins planted in and how some lucky tree cutter would get paid for removing them someday when they took up too much space.
