Building a coyote & hog black rifle...

[Telemark]

I realize they are a tool, but I’d feel bad putting one of those ugly things on one of my rifles. Maybe that’s what Savages are for. ;)

Heh. I put a thermal on my Savage. It was pretty ugly. But if you get one of the expensive ones, they look more like regular scopes. I have QD mounts so I can swap back and forth.

 

[Turkish]

My situation has me never spending nighttime near my hunting property. Hopefully that changes soon with some infrastructure improvements.

 

[omicron1792]

It’s fun and addictive.

 

[356]

I didn't mean it in a skeptical way. I recently bought a .223 bolt rifle that I'm interested in hunting with. Where is the thread you posed? I'd like to read about experiences hunting with the cartridge.

Again, drawing from my gun shop days, lots of parents used the .223 to introduce children to deer hunting. With the right ammo and proximity, the cartridge is a fine deer round. My opinion is that the round fell out of grace as a whitetail cartridge when many states still banned anything under .24 caliber--a rule that was designed to keep hunters from using 22 magnums. That has changed in most states, and the .223 centerfire is a credible whitetail round. Here is just one of many articles extolling the virtues of this cartridge for deer. Why the .223 Remington is the Most Underrated Deer Cartridge.

In a bolt action rifle with a 20-24" barrel and something like Winchester's XP Deer Season Whitetail will provide good results on any deer up to 150 yards.

 

[omicron1792]

Again, drawing from my gun shop days, lots of parents used the .223 to introduce children to deer hunting. With the right ammo and proximity, the cartridge is a fine deer round. My opinion is that the round fell out of grace as a whitetail cartridge when many states still banned anything under .24 caliber--a rule that was designed to keep hunters from using 22 magnums. That has changed in most states, and the .223 centerfire is a credible whitetail round. Here is just one of many articles extolling the virtues of this cartridge for deer. Why the .223 Remington is the Most Underrated Deer Cartridge.

In a bolt action rifle with a 20-24" barrel and something like Winchester's XP Deer Season Whitetail will provide good results on any deer up to 150 yards.

Lot further than 150! Minimum disruption velocity for 77TMK is 1800fps. That puts me at 520 yards with ballistic calculator.

 

[omicron1792]

One of main 223 benefits is that it is fun and relatively cheap to shoot. So you practice more. Become a better shot. We all know putting the first shot in the right place is the single biggest predictor of success, regardless of cartridge.

Btw this is with an 18” barrel. I wouldn’t hunt with anything over 20”. I always use a supressor. 16-18” barrels and 223/5.56 gets you to 400 yards, probably an about as far as most need to be shooting and animal.

 

[356]

Lot further than 150! Minimum disruption velocity for 77TMK is 1800fps. That puts me at 520 yards with ballistic calculator.

View attachment 90200

No argument from me. However, I think we both can agree that if one is hunting an area where 250 - 500 yard shots would be somewhat routine, the .223 would not be the rifle I to recommend. I keep drop charts in all of my blinds for that "just in case" shot that is beyond the usual 70-150 yards that includes the .223, .243, 30-30, .270, .6.5 Creedmore, 308, 30-06, 7mm Win Mag and .50 ML. The longest shot on our property would "technically" be 450 yards based on 85 acres and topography. I don't include the .223, .243, 30-30 or .50 ML beyond 300 on my charts.

So, you are right. Even with a 16" barrel (common to the AR platform .223), the cartridge will work for longer ranges, but IMO is not ideal for them unless the hunter is also highly proficient. What I do like about the .223 is that there are several light weight and the cost for practice rounds is 20 cents for FMJ and 50 cents for some hunting rounds.

 

[omicron1792]

No argument from me. However, I think we both can agree that if one is hunting an area where 250 - 500 yard shots would be somewhat routine, the .223 would not be the rifle I to recommend. I keep drop charts in all of my blinds for that "just in case" shot that is beyond the usual 70-150 yards that includes the .223, .243, 30-30, .270, .6.5 Creedmore, 308, 30-06, 7mm Win Mag and .50 ML. The longest shot on our property would "technically" be 450 yards based on 85 acres and topography. I don't include the .223, .243, 30-30 or .50 ML beyond 300 on my charts.

So, you are right. Even with a 16" barrel (common to the AR platform .223), the cartridge will work for longer ranges, but IMO is not ideal for them unless the hunter is also highly proficient. What I do like about the .223 is that there are several light weight and the cost for practice rounds is 20 cents for FMJ and 50 cents for some hunting rounds.

I hear you. I used to feel the same. I have a 30-06, a 338 lapua, 375 Ruger, and 416 Ruger. Ha.

But the reality I have experienced has been different. Over thousands of rounds of 223/5.56 shooting the last few years has shown me the opposite of what you said. I shoot it better at ranges up to 600 yards ( the longest target at my range).

The two main factors for shooting proficiency are 1A practice and 1B recoil. The 223 allows for way more practice. It is cheaper and much more fun to shoot many many rounds.

Also, no matter if you are the best shooter in the world, shooting a gun with less recoil makes a more accurate shooter. It’s just facts with many many data points to back it up.

I have a self imposed 400 yard limit for hunting. I have the best chance to kill a deer with my 5.56.

Btw, if is shoot behind shoulder crease I get an exit most times. But I shoot high shoulder and I haven’t had one not drop drt.

1st pic is a high shoulder drt from 77TMK.

2nd Pic from my son’s first deer with 77TMK and 223. Shot was a little low. But this is exit wound, about 3-5”. What deer would survive this damage?

 

[b116757]

I use 223 for a lot of hunting and have for last 30 years I like the 55ish grain solid copper bullets from Barns or Hornady and push them fast don’t be tempted to use the heavier 70grain solid copper bullets in 223 they can’t reliably be pushed fast enough to open up they would be the bomb diggity in a 22-243 or 22-250 however.

 

[356]

I am looking forward to dialing the gun in using 55 grain ammo once I get the suppressor. Here is the journey, so far:
Feb 5: Account created with Silencer Shop. Began researching suppressors.
Feb 19: Ordered suppressor, completed paperwork online. Found that completing account beforehand (with lots of data) did not speed up the process.
Feb 20: Uploaded passport photo, went to dealership for fingerprinting
Feb 22: Completed more documents (basically the same questions as the ATF 4473)
Feb 23: Email from the compliance team that everything looked good.
Feb 23: ATF Form 4 & POA documentation completed online
March 5: ATF Form 4 ready to submit. Dealer calls and asks me to come into the shop, however, I am out of town.
March 10: After researching "Form 4 ready to submit," I call the dealer and we are able to do this over the phone & computer.
March 11: ATF "in process" update email
March 16: Still "in process."
UPDATE: Later in the day I received an email from ATF and a call from the dealer. I picked up the silence that night on the way to Jefferson City. I will test the setup this weekend.

So far I have set up the ballistics app that goes with the Athlon thermal scope. I'll likely run 50-100 break-in rounds of 5.56 NATO through the gun prior to the final setup and dialing in with the Hornady ammo.

 

[swat1018]

I finally got all of the pieces for my build. Took my Noveske lower and put a .338 ARC upper on it. Put a YHM "Bad Larry" .338 suppressor on it. Topped it with a OneLeaf Mars thermal I bought from Amazon. Pretty impressed with the whole package. The OneLeaf thermal is the biggest surprise, it's great. My buddy has a name brand thermal he paid twice as much for, and mine is far superior in image quality. I shot a hog last night at close range shooting the 307 grain Hornady subsonic. I could hear the buffer inside the stock and the round hit the hog's head. The shot wasn't perfect, as the hog moved, of course. It dropped in its tracks, but hopped back up and made it another 60-80 yards. I didn't follow the advice I give most people of always put a 2nd round in them. Excited to get another shot on a hog and make a little better shot.

 

[356]

First shots using 55 grain target ammo for the recommended 100 round barrel break-in. While I would be happy to shoot a shot or two without hearing protection, the first box of 20 without them had my ears ringing some, so the next four boxes were with the muffs. Getting familiar with the thermal takes a few minutes for this OG, but has gone well. The rest of the break-in rounds were with the muffs. The next step will be to use the "one shot zero" using the hog ammo and ensuring I have the ballistics app communicating with the scope.

 

[omicron1792]

First shots using 55 grain target ammo for the recommended 100 round barrel break-in. While I would be happy to shoot a shot or two without hearing protection, the first box of 20 without them had my ears ringing some, so the next four boxes were with the muffs. Getting familiar with the thermal takes a few minutes for this OG, but has gone well. The rest of the break-in rounds were with the muffs. The next step will be to use the "one shot zero" using the hog ammo and ensuring I have the ballistics app communicating with the scope.

View attachment 90709

Cool man! I’m going hog killing tomorrow night.

 

[BC Buck]

First shots using 55 grain target ammo for the recommended 100 round barrel break-in. While I would be happy to shoot a shot or two without hearing protection, the first box of 20 without them had my ears ringing some, so the next four boxes were with the muffs. Getting familiar with the thermal takes a few minutes for this OG, but has gone well. The rest of the break-in rounds were with the muffs. The next step will be to use the "one shot zero" using the hog ammo and ensuring I have the ballistics app communicating with the scope.

View attachment 90709

Think much noise comes out back from ejection. Shot a turkey with auto loader with barrel 20" out blind window and rung my ears bad.

 

[bigboreblr]

Take a magnet to those herter's bullets. I thought thoe were copper washed steel jcket bullets like AK47 rounds. They're rough on non-chrome lined bores.

Oldest kid likes the winchester xm193's for practice.

 

[Feelslikefar.]

Shot a turkey with auto loader with barrel 20" out blind window and rung my ears bad.

More than people realize. Having shot a semi auto shotgun in... not even full darkness, just near dark, I was shocked by the FLAME coming out of the ejection port.

 

[356]

I sync'ed the scope and ballistics app on the phone (pretty easy). After completing the break-in process, I used the one-shot zero and am ready to go.

The best way to get started night hunting would be to go with someone who is using them....however, my coyote and pig shooting friends are on the other side of the state, and I am hoping to use the gun before going out with them. Athlon has some good videos to walk one through the process.

Take a magnet to those herter's bullets. I thought thoe were copper washed steel jcket bullets like AK47 rounds. They're rough on non-chrome lined bores.

Oldest kid likes the winchester xm193's for practice.

The ones I am using are older Herter's made by Tula (Russian). You are correct, the bullet is a 55 grain lead core surrounded by a copper plated steel jacket. These work well for chrome lined bore break-in.

Most (if not all) brass cased Herter's branded ammo is currently made by Winchester.

 

[omicron1792]

I sync'ed the scope and ballistics app on the phone (pretty easy). After completing the break-in process, I used the one-shot zero and am ready to go.

The best way to get started night hunting would be to go with someone who is using them....however, my coyote and pig shooting friends are on the other side of the state, and I am hoping to use the gun before going out with them. Athlon has some good videos to walk one through the process.

The ones I am using are older Herter's made by Tula (Russian). You are correct, the bullet is a 55 grain lead core surrounded by a copper plated steel jacket. These work well for chrome lined bore break-in.

Most (if not all) brass cased Herter's branded ammo is currently made by Winchester.

Next step is you need an e caller. Let me know if you need any recs.