Building a coyote & hog black rifle...

[Telemark]

I realize they are a tool, but I’d feel bad putting one of those ugly things on one of my rifles. Maybe that’s what Savages are for. ;)

Heh. I put a thermal on my Savage. It was pretty ugly. But if you get one of the expensive ones, they look more like regular scopes. I have QD mounts so I can swap back and forth.

 

[Turkish]

My situation has me never spending nighttime near my hunting property. Hopefully that changes soon with some infrastructure improvements.

 

[omicron1792]

It’s fun and addictive.

 

[356]

I didn't mean it in a skeptical way. I recently bought a .223 bolt rifle that I'm interested in hunting with. Where is the thread you posed? I'd like to read about experiences hunting with the cartridge.

Again, drawing from my gun shop days, lots of parents used the .223 to introduce children to deer hunting. With the right ammo and proximity, the cartridge is a fine deer round. My opinion is that the round fell out of grace as a whitetail cartridge when many states still banned anything under .24 caliber--a rule that was designed to keep hunters from using 22 magnums. That has changed in most states, and the .223 centerfire is a credible whitetail round. Here is just one of many articles extolling the virtues of this cartridge for deer. Why the .223 Remington is the Most Underrated Deer Cartridge.

In a bolt action rifle with a 20-24" barrel and something like Winchester's XP Deer Season Whitetail will provide good results on any deer up to 150 yards.

 

[omicron1792]

Again, drawing from my gun shop days, lots of parents used the .223 to introduce children to deer hunting. With the right ammo and proximity, the cartridge is a fine deer round. My opinion is that the round fell out of grace as a whitetail cartridge when many states still banned anything under .24 caliber--a rule that was designed to keep hunters from using 22 magnums. That has changed in most states, and the .223 centerfire is a credible whitetail round. Here is just one of many articles extolling the virtues of this cartridge for deer. Why the .223 Remington is the Most Underrated Deer Cartridge.

In a bolt action rifle with a 20-24" barrel and something like Winchester's XP Deer Season Whitetail will provide good results on any deer up to 150 yards.

Lot further than 150! Minimum disruption velocity for 77TMK is 1800fps. That puts me at 520 yards with ballistic calculator.

 

[omicron1792]

One of main 223 benefits is that it is fun and relatively cheap to shoot. So you practice more. Become a better shot. We all know putting the first shot in the right place is the single biggest predictor of success, regardless of cartridge.

Btw this is with an 18” barrel. I wouldn’t hunt with anything over 20”. I always use a supressor. 16-18” barrels and 223/5.56 gets you to 400 yards, probably an about as far as most need to be shooting and animal.

 

[356]

Lot further than 150! Minimum disruption velocity for 77TMK is 1800fps. That puts me at 520 yards with ballistic calculator.

View attachment 90200

No argument from me. However, I think we both can agree that if one is hunting an area where 250 - 500 yard shots would be somewhat routine, the .223 would not be the rifle I to recommend. I keep drop charts in all of my blinds for that "just in case" shot that is beyond the usual 70-150 yards that includes the .223, .243, 30-30, .270, .6.5 Creedmore, 308, 30-06, 7mm Win Mag and .50 ML. The longest shot on our property would "technically" be 450 yards based on 85 acres and topography. I don't include the .223, .243, 30-30 or .50 ML beyond 300 on my charts.

So, you are right. Even with a 16" barrel (common to the AR platform .223), the cartridge will work for longer ranges, but IMO is not ideal for them unless the hunter is also highly proficient. What I do like about the .223 is that there are several light weight and the cost for practice rounds is 20 cents for FMJ and 50 cents for some hunting rounds.

 

[omicron1792]

No argument from me. However, I think we both can agree that if one is hunting an area where 250 - 500 yard shots would be somewhat routine, the .223 would not be the rifle I to recommend. I keep drop charts in all of my blinds for that "just in case" shot that is beyond the usual 70-150 yards that includes the .223, .243, 30-30, .270, .6.5 Creedmore, 308, 30-06, 7mm Win Mag and .50 ML. The longest shot on our property would "technically" be 450 yards based on 85 acres and topography. I don't include the .223, .243, 30-30 or .50 ML beyond 300 on my charts.

So, you are right. Even with a 16" barrel (common to the AR platform .223), the cartridge will work for longer ranges, but IMO is not ideal for them unless the hunter is also highly proficient. What I do like about the .223 is that there are several light weight and the cost for practice rounds is 20 cents for FMJ and 50 cents for some hunting rounds.

I hear you. I used to feel the same. I have a 30-06, a 338 lapua, 375 Ruger, and 416 Ruger. Ha.

But the reality I have experienced has been different. Over thousands of rounds of 223/5.56 shooting the last few years has shown me the opposite of what you said. I shoot it better at ranges up to 600 yards ( the longest target at my range).

The two main factors for shooting proficiency are 1A practice and 1B recoil. The 223 allows for way more practice. It is cheaper and much more fun to shoot many many rounds.

Also, no matter if you are the best shooter in the world, shooting a gun with less recoil makes a more accurate shooter. It’s just facts with many many data points to back it up.

I have a self imposed 400 yard limit for hunting. I have the best chance to kill a deer with my 5.56.

Btw, if is shoot behind shoulder crease I get an exit most times. But I shoot high shoulder and I haven’t had one not drop drt.

1st pic is a high shoulder drt from 77TMK.

2nd Pic from my son’s first deer with 77TMK and 223. Shot was a little low. But this is exit wound, about 3-5”. What deer would survive this damage?