broadcasting LC mix (no tillage)

[wango tango]

I'm fighting waterhemp and marestail weed issues and am trying to turn the corner to never til my land again. My plots were failures this year. I've burned them down with gly and 2-4d and have mostly bare dirt. I'm going to do the cereal grain LC mix (oats, rye, gh radish, peas, clover) but really do not want to til my plot at all but do want a good plot. Should I til anyway and let the LC mix outcompete or just broadcast on the surface since it is a fall planting? I just worry I wont get good germination.

 

[yoderjac]

I had a similar problem with Marestail. One of the principles of soil health is not to expose bare soil. So, this spring I tried to control Marestail. First, I sprayed 24d Amine (or Ester but not B) and did so after as much Marestail germinated as possible without letting the largest get more than 4" tall. 24d has a soil residual effect, so I waited for a couple weeks. Next I surface broadcast and cultipacked buckwheat at a heavy rate (close to 100 lbs/ac). My intent was to quickly shade out the gly resistant weeds like Marestail. I then sprayed with gly to kill the other weeds and give the buckwheat a head start. I now have good standing buckwheat. I chose Buckwheat for it's soil building and smothering characteristics.

I plan to throw and mow even in my heavy clay this fall. If I think the clay has crusted, I'll raise my tiller very high and go over the buckwheat rather than cultipacking after broadcasting seed. It will barely touch the top inch of soil. As my move to no-till is starting to build OM, I'm seeing lest crusting and less need to do this at all. I use PTT/CC/WR as my cover crop mix rather than the LC mix down here, but everything in the LC mix can be surface broadcast and cultipacked and should show good germination. Try to plant with rain in the forecast. If you have concerns about germination rates with your soils or location, simply raise the broadcast rates a bit. I'd start with the LC rates this year and see how it goes. If you are not happy, then increase rates next year.

By the way, if I were not going to plant in the spring, I would have avoided spraying glyphosate. I would have used 24D Amine or Ester. Because Marestail is resistant to gly, when you use it you advantage it over other easier to control weeds and grasses. Just to keep from exposing bare soil for a significant period, I would have let the weeds grow during the summer. Many are beneficial to deer and other wildlife and will produce OM when they die as well. I would have waited until you were ready to plant this fall before killing weeds with gly. I prefer the method I used with buckwheat because it feeds deer and turkey and smothers many weeds for the summer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

Not sure on peas as I've never tried it. Sometimes oats start harder Throw and grow. But with timely rain you should be good to go. With the exception of peas I've thrown everything you mention on the ground and had it grow with no tilling.

 

[wango tango]

Not overly worried about the peas. In fact I have several hundred pounds of leftover soybeans I may use instead.

I really want to buy a genesys no till drill. If I could make back $1k/year back on it I think I'd buy it. Tempted to advertise a foodplot service.

 

[yoderjac]

Good point on the peas. I have done ok surface broadcasting them but only if I cultipack. They do want to see a little dirt on them but cultipacking is usually enough if the soil is such that they get pressed in. I'd probably skip the peas if you don't have a cultipacker or your soil is dry and hard when you plant.

 

[wango tango]

I do have a 'plotmaster' cultipacker. I'll definitely use that.

 

[Spartacus]

My plots are in South Central TN and I have a good stand of Ladino, and red clover, and chicory in both my destination plot and stop-over plot. I started with the LC mix minus the peas this past fall, and I have mowed it twice and sprayed with Cleth early in the Spring. It is probably around just below knee high right now, and I plan to broadcast oats, winter rye, radishes, and turnips directly into it at the latter part of August. My plan is to broadcast my seed into the clover and chickory, bush hog the existing plots to about 6 inches with the clippings providing the mulch/"dirt" layer over the seed, and then roll it flat with the culti-packer. This will be experimental for me, but I believe the benefits will far outweigh the potential downfalls of this strategy. I won't have to worry about the fear of having failed plots, due to the crap shoot of receiving timely rains, or the soil damage caused by tillage. As an added bonus, I won't wear myself out bush hogging, tilling, and then cultipacking. Will let all know how it works out.

 

[Vikingman1981]

My plots are in South Central TN and I have a good stand of Ladino, and red clover, and chicory in both my destination plot and stop-over plot. I started with the LC mix minus the peas this past fall, and I have mowed it twice and sprayed with Cleth early in the Spring. It is probably around just below knee high right now, and I plan to broadcast oats, winter rye, radishes, and turnips directly into it at the latter part of August. My plan is to broadcast my seed into the clover and chickory, bush hog the existing plots to about 6 inches with the clippings providing the mulch/"dirt" layer over the seed, and then roll it flat with the culti-packer. This will be experimental for me, but I believe the benefits will far outweigh the potential downfalls of this strategy. I won't have to worry about the fear of having failed plots, due to the crap shoot of receiving timely rains, or the soil damage caused by tillage. As an added bonus, I won't wear myself out bush hogging, tilling, and then cultipacking. Will let all know how it works out.

How did that work out for you? Last summer I planted clover and turnips into a plot here in SW PA. The deer hammered the turnips as the clover wasn't quite established. I frost seeded more clover over the winter and I sprayed cleth twice this spring/summer. I've cut it once and I now have a great stand of clover. I don't want to eliminate the clover but am wanting to plant more turnips. How did your above response work out?