Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

Best Cover Crop (WR/Clover) for poor soil

nrowles

nrowles

5 year old buck +
I am going to get some lime down this fall but it is time to plant my fall/winter crop now in Central PA. I have 5.0 acidic soil with poor nutrient content and well drained. I was thinking I would put down WR and Clover. Does that sound like the thing to do and if so what is the best clover for my soil and location?
 
I'd probably skip the clover at 5.0, at least white clover.
 
Seeds not to expensive for a try on a small plot but that is pretty acidic. The clover probably won't do much. Rye doesn't care.

You may want to look into fixation balansa clover. I've never tried it. Smithseed.com says it handles ph from 4.5 to 8.3
Again I've never tried it. If I recall Tap and Native hunter were experimenting with it. I don't remember if ph was the reason or if it was an experiment to have one.

Welter seed also carries it.

Just some random thoughts..
 
I agree, don't try to establish a perennial clover plot until the amendments have had time to work. Your soil conditions will favor weeds during establishment. Instead, do as the guys above suggest. Use an annual or short-lived clover that is more pH tolerant like Fixation for this fall with your WR. By next fall, you will have had adequate time for that pH to adjust and time to get weeds under control. Plant your perennial clover then. I'm in VA and I love Durana for my area. It would probably do pretty well in central PA as well. I like the drought resistance and persistence as compared to Ladino. It is slow to establish and needs best establishment practices to start with a weed free field.

Thanks,

Jack
 
This fits my recent experience. I used a mix of 6 lbs medium red clover and 4 lbs of ladino per acre on my food plot trails last year. Virgin ground for plots. I then frost seeded 2 lbs per acre each ladino and Kopu 2 this spring. Last falls clover was seeded with a mix of 50 lbs rye and 50 lbs oats and 5 lbs radish. My intent was to disc it all in this year and start over. My soil ph tested well below 5. The clover did remarkably well in my mind and after a cooler than normal summer and enough moisture I was tempted to leave a couple trails alone and work on turning them into straight clover plots. Instead, I stuck with my plan and disked it all in again this year to take advantage of the green manure and nitrogen. I added about a ton and a half of lime this year and will add that much again next year. I also fertilized per my soil test results. Two of my trails totaling about 1/3 of an acre combined will be turned into straight clover plots next year. There were a few small areas that I did intentionally leave alone just because the clover was really doing well and was weed free. It totals maybe 1/8 of an acre in three small areas. It's really more of a practice area for me to maintain this year as well as leave a little clover around for a quick bite to eat for the deer. I'll do another soil test at the same time of year this year.

If you're looking for advice I'd say plant the clover with some rye and oats and see how it does. But plan on amending your soils over time and adjusting your plan as needed year by year, or even season by season. I've adopted the be patient but also be willing to adjust and adapt my plan based on the circumstances as I go approach. Have fun with it and don't be afraid to try.
 
"Rye(cerealgrain) is a many splendered thing"

bill
 
Buckwheat is also great for building soils.
 
I created this in-the-woods plot last year without a soil sample. I spread lime and 19-19-19 and seeded it with Grandpa Rays Outdoors Soil Builder mix. It actually did well IMO. I had planted it in the spring and then added oats and winter rye in the fall and it all grew well. This pic is from last year (spring of 2016).

DSC02403.JPG


After more lime, fertilizer, and the same mix this year, I did a soil sample this summer and the PH was 5.7 but the nutrients were quite good. I took a real flier and planted some brassicas/clovers at the end of July and recently added WR and oats.

DSC00350.JPG

Even with the crappy PH. the brassicas are coming up. I'm not recommending brassicas, just noting you are not all that far away. I will be further addressing the PH this winter. In your case, I'd stick to WR and oats this year.
 
I see some small burnett in that mix. That is what I would plant. It tolerates PH as low a 4.5 I believe.
 
S.T.Fanatic said:
I see some small burnett in that mix. That is what I would plant. It tolerates PH as low a 4.5 I believe.
Click to expand...

You inspired me. I think this is something I'd like to add to my clover plots. I just ordered 50 lbs of it. If you have some experience with it, I'd like to hear any tips for planting and managing it.

Thanks,

Jack
 
yoderjac said:
You inspired me. I think this is something I'd like to add to my clover plots. I just ordered 50 lbs of it. If you have some experience with it, I'd like to hear any tips for planting and managing it.

Thanks,

Jack
Click to expand...


I do not. I have noticed it growing in one of the neighbors wooded pastures so i think its safe to say that it tolerates a fair amount of shade. The deer do spend a fair amount of time over there so....

I have a second year plot that I cut out of the woods last year. I will be planting WR,WW,Sunflowers, and Brassica in it this year. I'm trying to build the soil up so that in the future I can have a perennial plot because it is hard to get to with equipment not to mention full of stumps and roots. I'd like to just give it the once a year mowing to release seed and keep the thing going not to mention some of the species aren't supposed to be mowed or grazed in the establishment year.

Delar Small Burnett will be going in it as well as Sainfoin, Falcata Alfalfa, Forb Feast Chicory, Barduro Red Clover, Barblanca or Alice White Clover, and possibly Kura or Kopu ll. I'm sure some of them won't do that well and others will do great but there is plenty in that mix that something should thrive.
 
nrowles said:
I am going to get some lime down this fall but it is time to plant my fall/winter crop now in Central PA. I have 5.0 acidic soil with poor nutrient content and well drained. I was thinking I would put down WR and Clover. Does that sound like the thing to do and if so what is the best clover for my soil and location?
Click to expand...
The winter Rye is good. Alsike clover might do the best in your poor soil.
 
Bill said:
You may want to look into fixation balansa clover. I've never tried it. Smithseed.com says it handles ph from 4.5 to 8.3
Again I've never tried it. If I recall Tap and Native hunter were experimenting with it. I don't remember if ph was the reason or if it was an experiment to have one.

Welter seed also carries it.
Click to expand...
I have grown Balansa for a few years but not for pH reasons.
I tried it because of the advertised re-seedin traits. So far, I'm less than impressed with it re-seeding, but it did grow beautiful plots during the following spring/summer after planting it the previous fall.
It has re-seeded to an extent but it hasn't established that perpetual clover plot that I'd hoped for.
 
Short lived reseeding clovers like balansa and crimson will never produce a perpetual plot in the way perennial clover will. Perennial clover spends a lot of energy establishing a root system and benefits from a cover crop while establishing. Once established, it has a competitive edge over other plants that are germinating from seed. And they produce seed which also contributes to the plot. A reseeding clover does not have the advantage of an established root system. They do very well the first year when you have suppressed the weeds for them. Much of their energy goes to quick growth and seed production. They can produce just as much seed, but in the next season, that seed is competing with weed seed. Your description is typical. They will reseed to an extent, but they will diminish each year much faster than perennial.

I see these kinds of clovers as filling a different niche than perennial clover. They come up faster and are attractive. They can be planted in the spring and compete well with weeds compared to perennial during establishment. They can fix a lot of N pretty quickly. Farmer's sometimes called them "plow down" clovers in the old days. The seed is less expensive generally because they don't last as long.

Thanks,

Jack
 
S.T.Fanatic said:
I do not. I have noticed it growing in one of the neighbors wooded pastures so i think its safe to say that it tolerates a fair amount of shade. The deer do spend a fair amount of time over there so....

I have a second year plot that I cut out of the woods last year. I will be planting WR,WW,Sunflowers, and Brassica in it this year. I'm trying to build the soil up so that in the future I can have a perennial plot because it is hard to get to with equipment not to mention full of stumps and roots. I'd like to just give it the once a year mowing to release seed and keep the thing going not to mention some of the species aren't supposed to be mowed or grazed in the establishment year.

Delar Small Burnett will be going in it as well as Sainfoin, Falcata Alfalfa, Forb Feast Chicory, Barduro Red Clover, Barblanca or Alice White Clover, and possibly Kura or Kopu ll. I'm sure some of them won't do that well and others will do great but there is plenty in that mix that something should thrive.
Click to expand...

What source did you use to get your falcata alfalfa? I can't seem to find a source online...
 
yoderjac said:
You inspired me. I think this is something I'd like to add to my clover plots. I just ordered 50 lbs of it. If you have some experience with it, I'd like to hear any tips for planting and managing it.

Thanks,

Jack
Click to expand...
I added my experience on a thread titled Small Burnett. I am on sand. My densest plot and only mowed to get rid of ferns. The small burnet has established, well.
 
Thanks for the info. I'll look at your thread as well as give these folks a call. What have you seen the price per pound typically? I emailed Ranier this morning actually, I'll give Bruce Seed a call this afternoon.
 
No help on price.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Summer plot soil builder
3 4 5
Replies
88
Views
3K
Brian662
Brian662
B
Berseem, Balsana, Arrowleaf clover
Replies
10
Views
470
bigboreblr
B
B
Soil Testing Crop codes?
Replies
4
Views
269
bigboreblr
B
B
Crimson Clover tips
Replies
16
Views
855
Kdog
K
M
Oats and Rye for fall Clover cover crop.
Replies
8
Views
647
farmlegend
F
Top