Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL

[omicron1792]

Good grief! I've been feeding deer for over 25 years in one of the wettest states in the country and have never seen knee deep mud and feces under a feeder . I'm talking deer not cows.

I’ve made several posts on here with your same arguments almost verbatim. They just get glossed over.

People think what they do is right and what others do is wrong. They also think what their dad or grandad did was right but anything past that is wrong.

Climbing in trees with aluminum and high powered rifles and scopes is 99% of the steps taken. Everything else is small small changes in killing deer.

 

[BenA]

It's always about making killing a deer easier, whether you are talking about Texas mesquite country or Alabama pine plantations. You know, it would be impossible to kill them in those environments without it... It' really a miracle they even existed for a million years before Moultrie was born.

It can actually make it harder according to scientific research.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

It can actually make it harder according to scientific research.

You and I both know that is 1000% not the case. I don’t care what the research says there’s zero chance on earth a bait pile does not make killing deer easier.

 

[omicron1792]

You and I both know that is 1000% not the case. I don’t care what the research says there’s zero chance on earth a bait pile does not make killing deer easier.

So then we are just debating feelings. Which goes nowhere.

 

[BenA]

You and I both know that is 1000% not the case. I don’t care what the research says there’s zero chance on earth a bait pile does not make killing deer easier.

No. I know it makes it harder in many, many circumstances.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

No. I know it makes it harder in many, many circumstances.

So you’re considering baiting to make it even harder on yourself and your neighbors are such good hunters that they are more successful despite bait?

 

[SwampCat]

Gotcha. What about calcium phosphates mixed into a mineral site and a nearby watering hole?

I have the minerals and water is not a problem. Three ponds, two year round springs - and a slough that never goes dry.

 

[BenA]

So you’re considering baiting to make it even harder on yourself and your neighbors are such good hunters that they are more successful despite bait?

No

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

No

K

 

[BenA]

K

Not really trying to be short. I've already answered the why question already. If people don't understand it, that's ok.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Not really trying to be short. I've already answered the why question already. If people don't understand it, that's ok.

Yeah, that’s all good. I definitely don’t understand it, but that’s not for me to understand everybody’s decision.

 

[Baker]

Good morning gentlemen. I'm off to plant chestnuts I just received from Chestnut hill but before I go I'll offer a few facts in response to some of the dialogue here.

First the. NDA article by Kip Adams; He offers the typical knee jerk political response with no facts. Let's look at the state of Texas where perhaps more people feed than anywhere else and deer mgt. is a religion. Countless thousands of people feed countless tons of feed year round both in high fence ranches and low fence. Historically to date 1) There are no reported cases of bovine tuberculosis in whitetail deer 2) There are no historical cases of bovine brucellosis reported in whitetail deer.. I didn't check mange but Ive never seen or heard of it on any places I've ever been. The same results are true for any property I have ever been on. The facts don't line up with his position and he leaves the benefits out

A brief deviation to discuss QDMA or the NDA. Back when they decided to kill the forum feature I had a lengthy debate [ argument ] with Brian Murphy about content QDMA puts out. I challenged him to stop the hypocrisy and take more political risk by discussing things that weren't readily accepted by some in the hunting community. Ex. The highest award presented by QDMA is the Al Brothers award. The first high fence I ever saw back in the 70's was built by Al Brothers on a ranch he heavily supplementally fed. He was one of the pioneers in game fencing and supplemental feeding to benefit deer. Yet QDMA was unwilling to acknowledge that aspect of Al's work much less present the values Ex. They have given their highest award to several of the biologist that literally created the enclosed deer breeder programs that have spread throughout the country. Yet they never discussed the factual pros /cons and realities of the deer breeder business { BTW I'm not a fan } I could go on. My " opinion " is they stay with politically safe generic content. I still review their food plots stuff though.

Steve Demarais. He states that deer are 3x more likely to visit a feeder than some other spot somewhere else therefore " concludes " it more likely spreads CWD . Pretty loose scientific hypothesis without a lot of back up don't you think? Let's look at some of his work. First pull up the MSU websight on him and you will see a pic of him in a breeder pen with feeders and heavily fenced. I know for a fact they have shipped deer from that pen all over the country...kinda contrary to the current CWD mantra right? Beyond that he has a significant body of research in larger study areas [ Faith Ranch for one } that heavily relied on supplemental feeding. I like much of Steve's work and think he is one of the good guys but his statement does not correlate with the wealth of factual experience disputing it. But everyone is trying to postulate and take the safe road on the CWD issue.

Now a caveat ....We should probably start a different thread for CWD. For me it is hard to separate fact from hysteria, false information, political agenda and reality. Nonetheless could be worthy discussions as there are some very interesting things going on in that world. Breeders have isolated deer that appear to be CWD resistant and are trying to identify the gene involved . Feed manufacturers are experimenting with ingredients copper being one that appear to help increase resistance to CWD. Lots to learn here but wouldn't it be fascinating if the deer breeding industry helped solve the CWD problem by populating resistant deer around the country while we all could feed deer a supplement that increased there resistance and improved there health.

I want to revisit feeders knee deep in mud feces and urine but need to move on. That is an incredibly unnatural occurrence As a general rule most animals don't crap or piss where they eat. I've been in numerous 2 acre deer pens with 15-20 deer in them and they don't eliminate anywhere near the feeder. Saliva--yep but piss and crap no. Thats my experience. But we can dig deeper into this concern later is useful.

 

[Telemark]

No. I know it makes it harder in many, many circumstances.

That has been my experience. That's why I quit baiting deer. Bait makes it easier for me to shoot antlerless deer, but I don't need help with that. Bait seems to make it more difficult for me to get opportunities on mature bucks.

I have no doubt other hunters have different experiences.

 

[BenA]

Yeah, that’s all good. I definitely don’t understand it, but that’s not for me to understand everybody’s decision.

I'm using the exact same reason you bait. Why is it OK when you bait, and wrong if I do it for the same reason? I'm considering doing it to have deer using my property more.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'm using the exact same reason you bait. Why is it OK when you bait, and wrong if I do it for the same reason? I'm considering doing it to have deer using my property more.

100%. It’s the act of hunting over it where I differentiate.
But as we’ve established that is a moral and ethical reason and less an environmental for me.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

That has been my experience. That's why I quit baiting deer. Bait makes it easier for me to shoot antlerless deer, but I don't need help with that. Bait seems to make it more difficult for me to get opportunities on mature bucks.

I have no doubt other hunters have different experiences.

Yeah definitely must have different experiences across landscapes I suppose. But I have a neighbor who has been an outfitter for 30 years. He relies on generally low hanging fruit of hunters to come in, sit for 3 days, and kill a buck. Thats his and basically all other deer outfitters strategy, whether in Kentucky or Ohio or Kansas or Saskatchewan
I would venture 99% of them have bait at every stand site. Now keep in mind these are business who theoretically need to worry about a bottom line. If bait didn’t work why on gods green earth would every last one of them waste the time and money? My neighbor told me that ran over 90% success rate last year.

 

[BenA]

Yeah definitely must have different experiences across landscapes I suppose. But I have a neighbor who has been an outfitter for 30 years. He relies on generally low hanging fruit of hunters to come in, sit for 3 days, and kill a buck. Thats his and basically all other deer outfitters strategy, whether in Kentucky or Ohio or Kansas or Saskatchewan
I would venture 99% of them have bait at every stand site. Now keep in mind these are business who theoretically need to worry about a bottom line. If bait didn’t work why on gods green earth would every last one of them waste the time and money? My neighbor told me that ran over 90% success rate last year.

Definitely easier in different places. After hunting both, I don’t consider Kentucky to be on the same level of difficulty as Louisiana.

 

[SwampCat]

Around our place - Sept and first half of Oct - bait. Rest of season, acorns or food plots - especially for mature bucks

 

[BenA]

The conservation organizations like Pope and Young and Boone and Crockett consider baiting fair chase in order to enter antlered deer.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Not if you kill one in Iowa or Illinois over bait. They are just following the state game laws. not exactly sticking their necks out there.