Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL

[ksJoe]

My house is in a small HOA. Its a weak, low power HOA with minimal rules. I like that. There are a few residents who want a strong HOA that controls a lot of things in the nieghborhood. But the HOA doesn't have that power, so they just make noise. Gina a few houses down from me isn't a bad person. But if Gina wanted to live in a neighborhood without trailers she should have bought property where that's the rule - there are options for that. Buying property where trailers are legal then getting emotionally upset about other people's trailers doesn't change the situation.

There are plenty of places where baiting is illegal. People could buy land there. Buying land where baiting is legal and pouting...

If Kansas outlawed baiting and vigorously enforced it, I would welcome that. But that's not the law of the land - so I operate under the rules as they are.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Every single state that borders me allows baiting. Some as recently as last year. So it’s impractical to say just go to another state. Rules change from time to time. I’m not sure I’ll have a platform where I can make a difference but I won’t quit trying. I’ll probably lose I know but I feel like weak people just accept things they feel like are wrong.

 

[Turkish]

My house is in a small HOA. Its a weak, low power HOA with minimal rules. I like that. There are a few residents who want a strong HOA that controls a lot of things in the nieghborhood. But the HOA doesn't have that power, so they just make noise. Gina a few houses down from me isn't a bad person. But if Gina wanted to live in a neighborhood without trailers she should have bought property where that's the rule - there are options for that. Buying property where trailers are legal then getting emotionally upset about other people's trailers doesn't change the situation.

There are plenty of places where baiting is illegal. People could buy land there. Buying land where baiting is legal and pouting...

If Kansas outlawed baiting and vigorously enforced it, I would welcome that. But that's not the law of the land - so I operate under the rules as they are.

Kind of a long drawn out analogy and it’s been a long week… Are you saying that baiters are trashy? I mean, I wasn’t gonna take it that far, but…

 

[ksJoe]

Kind of a long drawn out analogy and it’s been a long week… Are you saying that baiters are trashy? I mean, I wasn’t gonna take it that far, but…

yes, exactly. Baiters are like the people trashing up the nighborhood, and antibaiters are the neighborhood Karens who think the world should cater to their preferences.

 

[Turkish]

yes, exactly. Baiters are like the people trashing up the nighborhood, and antibaiters are the neighborhood Karens who think the world should cater to their preferences.

If Karens are the complainers, what do you call the ones that complain about the Karens?

 

[ksJoe]

If Karens are the complainers, what do you call the ones that complain about the Karens?

Karens are the ones who use drama to try to control others and get what they want.
Those who oppose them protect everyone's rights are selfless public servants.

 

[Turkish]

Karens are the ones who use drama to try to control others and get what they want.
Those who oppose them protect everyone's rights are selfless public servants.

May your corn piles always be tall.

 

[Ikeman]

Land and Legacy just had a 90 minute podcast on the subject. I found it so ironic and so blatantly obvious that they spent 90 minutes JUSTIFYING why they recommend baiting to their habitat customers. Really boils down to two reasons people use bait on their property. One they justify the fact that they "will never KILL a deer" because my neighbors all have bait out or they are making $$$ off the fact that they can get hunters to pay them to shoot deer off their property with guided "hunts". Their podcasts have become less and less about habitat work and more about how to kill a deer one way or the other. While not directly saying it ..... they hinted in every way possible on that podcast that even if you aren't in a state that legally allows baiting you should be doing it, because all your neighbors already are.

You can choose to use bait if you like, just don't bother trying to justify it to me. There is not a single valid reason other than the 2 I listed above for baiting. Baiting has absolutely no positive impact on wildlife populations. They made the comment in the podcast that if any biologist wanted to reach out to dispute what they were saying to please do so...... funny how they shut off the comments section for the audio podcast and the YouTube version of the podcast. What a joke these 2 have become. I won't bother to listen to or watch another thing they produce the rest of their existence and for the sake of wildlife I hope they decide to retire from pretending to be knowledgeable soon.

I think that line of thought only holds up in areas where planting food is fairly easy.

In my area, in my soils, we have had a 75% rate of total season failure our food plots. The last 3 plots that I planted (1 spring, and 2 fall, 1-1.5 acres per planting) ended up going 50-70 days after planting without enough rain to germinate them.

In 105°+ summers with 5-10 consecutive weeks without rain, a quality feed like protein pellets, cotton seed, or roasted soybeans are BY FAR the best nutrition available on the landscape.

Do I think it is as fair chase as hunting properly managed TSI…. No. Do I have access to the habitat that allows that kind of manipulation… also no.
I don’t think it is any less ethical than hunting cut corn or beans though, or even planted pears/apples. I play with the cards I am dealt. I provide high nutrition feed in the off-season, and throw a few seconds of corn from a timed feeder morning and evening during season.


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[Ikeman]

You confuse comparison to equivalency…


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[SwampCat]

Every single state that borders me allows baiting. Some as recently as last year. So it’s impractical to say just go to another state. Rules change from time to time. I’m not sure I’ll have a platform where I can make a difference but I won’t quit trying. I’ll probably lose I know but I feel like weak people just accept things they feel like are wrong.

I am sincerely interested in what KY G&F has said to you about the reason they allow baiting

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I am sincerely interested in what KY G&F has said to you about the reason they allow baiting

They never respond when I bring up this topic lol.
The reality is ky is one of the many “midwest” states (landscape-wise maybe not truly geographically) where baiting makes zero sense. If you take the state from far west to a good bit better than halfway east it’s an ag ground/wooded tapestry with very very very few large woodlots where deer can stay hidden. They have to walk in the open here. And then you throw in 9 days of “youth” rifle in Oct, 11 day muzzleloader (optional rifle season), 3 weekend rifle in the rut, and add in bait and its lights out for 99% of the landowners to actually believe they can manage for age class, if they care to.
So yeah, I’m guessing it’s cause there will always be a steady stream of people willing to buy a license to shoot a 125” and they waayyy outnumber the guy looking for a balanced age class and high end bucks. The state doesn’t cater that guy, in reality he has to work against the state to achieve the goal.

 

[SwampCat]

They never respond when I bring up this topic lol.
The reality is ky is one of the many “midwest” states (landscape-wise maybe not truly geographically) where baiting makes zero sense. If you take the state from far west to a good bit better than halfway east it’s an ag ground/wooded tapestry with very very very few large woodlots where deer can stay hidden. They have to walk in the open here. And then you throw in 9 days of “youth” rifle in Oct, 11 day muzzleloader (optional rifle season), 3 weekend rifle in the rut, and add in bait and its lights out for 99% of the landowners to actually believe they can manage for age class, if they care to.
So yeah, I’m guessing it’s cause there will always be a steady stream of people willing to buy a license to shoot a 125” and they waayyy outnumber the guy looking for a balanced age class and high end bucks. The state doesn’t cater that guy, in reality he has to work against the state to achieve the goal.

The reason I was curious is because of the numbers of deer claimed - around 1,000,000 and the number of deer killed - around 140,000. Typically, most states look for an annual harvest rate of 20/25% of the total herd numbers. Without checking every state’s numbers, KY has got to be very near the low end of the harvest percentage. Way lower than Iowa. AR makes no bones about it - baiting is legal to help hunters reach the desired harvest numbers. Baiting is used as a deer management tool.

Granted, I sometimes question numbers provided by the states - but they are all we have. KY hunters are killing 14% of the herd and Iowa hunters are harvesting 25% of the herd. You would think KY would have mature bucks running out their ears - they must all be over at Native Hunter’s place.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

The reason I was curious is because of the numbers of deer claimed - around 1,000,000 and the number of deer killed - around 140,000. Typically, most states look for an annual harvest rate of 20/25% of the total herd numbers. Without checking every state’s numbers, KY has got to be very near the low end of the harvest percentage. Way lower than Iowa. AR makes no bones about it - baiting is legal to help hunters reach the desired harvest numbers. Baiting is used as a deer management tool.

Granted, I sometimes question numbers provided by the states - but they are all we have. KY hunters are killing 14% of the herd and Iowa hunters are harvesting 25% of the herd. You would think KY would have mature bucks running out their ears - they must all be over at Native Hunter’s place.

Well, I can go ahead and tell you that Tele check system is about as truthful as a politicians tax returns.

 

[Native Hunter]

The reason I was curious is because of the numbers of deer claimed - around 1,000,000 and the number of deer killed - around 140,000. Typically, most states look for an annual harvest rate of 20/25% of the total herd numbers. Without checking every state’s numbers, KY has got to be very near the low end of the harvest percentage. Way lower than Iowa. AR makes no bones about it - baiting is legal to help hunters reach the desired harvest numbers. Baiting is used as a deer management tool.

Granted, I sometimes question numbers provided by the states - but they are all we have. KY hunters are killing 14% of the herd and Iowa hunters are harvesting 25% of the herd. You would think KY would have mature bucks running out their ears - they must all be over at Native Hunter’s place.

YES, They were there until I gave them a safer home.

 

[SwampCat]

Well, I can go ahead and tell you that Tele check system is about as truthful as a politicians tax returns.

I wouldnt argue that. AR has been doing telecheck for a long time - and to be honest - when we switched to telecheck, the overall harvest numbers did not change a lot. I think before telecheck there were a lot of hunters who didnt check because they had to drive 20 miles out of the way. Before telecheck, if I killed a deer a 1/4 mile from my house, I would take it to the house on the sxs- but then I would have to load it up and drive 40 miles round trip to check it. It was always pretty tantalizing not to go to the trouble to check it, and to be honest - it may have happened in the past - not at all to save a tag, but to save the time and effort. I talked to one of my neighbors one time and he told me he never checked a deer before telechek - unless he wanted to brag about it. Now he checks them all. So do we - as long as the system is working. The non checked deer before telechek probably are close to the numbers of non checked deer after telecheck - but for different reasons.

I think most states now use telechek - so the numbers are probably comparable -

In AR, we kill basically the same percentage of the deer herd each year as does IA. We have 8 weeks of modern rifle season, crossbows for five months, baiting - even in cwd zones, dog running, rifle hunting during the entire rut, no restrictive NR regs, and five times the amount of public land - making hunter access fairly easy - and yet we kill the same percentage of the deer herd as do Iowa hunters.

Either AR hunters are not very good at their sport - or the amount of cover and pressure exerted makes killing a deer much more difficult

 

[SwampCat]

YES, They were there until I gave them a safer home.

View attachment 88864

Your deer look right at home

 

[Baker]

Considering all that has been said here, it should be noted that baiting can have a positive purpose including mgt values.. I don't need to bait on farm at all. But when I do its to get deer close enough to a blind for the youngsters or the little old ladies I let hun { I am not a sexist:) ] to be assured a good shot. We also use bait [ corn ] in front of cameras to assess deer herd, help select deer for harvest, see how quality is shaping up late summer, and other anecdotal values. I understand all the problems folks have with baiting ...well most...but in the right circumstance for the right reasons I find value.

 

[Turkish]

Considering all that has been said here, it should be noted that baiting can have a positive purpose including mgt values.. I don't need to bait on farm at all. But when I do its to get deer close enough to a blind for the youngsters or the little old ladies I let hun { I am not a sexist:) ] to be assured a good shot. We also use bait [ corn ] in front of cameras to assess deer herd, help select deer for harvest, see how quality is shaping up late summer, and other anecdotal values. I understand all the problems folks have with baiting ...well most...but in the right circumstance for the right reasons I find value.

God bless all the little old ladies!

 

[Baker]

God bless all the little old ladies!

Indeed! I have a beautiful 75 yr old sweetheart that was in a blind over 30 days this yr. " Accidentally " shot a 1 yr old 5 pt and a button fawn thinking they were does. You think I said anything or in any way made her feel bad about that?? No way. I'll just move the feeder closer to the blind for her next yr and hope she hunts 40 days. Blesses everyone!

 

[Turkish]

Indeed! I have a beautiful 75 yr old sweetheart that was in a blind over 30 days this yr. " Accidentally " shot a 1 yr old 5 pt and a button fawn thinking they were does. You think I said anything or in any way made her feel bad about that?? No way. I'll just move the feeder closer to the blind for her next yr and hope she hunts 40 days. Blesses everyone!

Take heed, @ksJoe ! As you age, make sure you sit close enough to the pile.