Baiting, I know this has been discussed and discussed this is just my rant....LOL

[SwampCat]

I would say it varies depending on the property. Our state differentiates the difference between supplemental feed - feeding outside of hunting - and baiting during hunting season. I could provide much anecdotal opinion to supplemental summertime feeding improving body weights - at a time when southern deer generally experience a stress period. Without a doubt, defensive baiting - especially in poor mast crop years - keeps more deer on my place and fewer on my neighbor’s.

And while you did qualify your statement by excluding largely pine ground - there are millions of acres of commercial pine lands across the south. Our G&F did not stop baiting when cwd hit AR based upon their desire to reduce deer density - with them knowing more deer would be killed over bait than not. I have read Howboutthemdawgs exclaim a number of times about his outfitter neighbor pulling many of the younger deer to their land with bait and killing them before they mature

I do a lot of baiting and supplemental feeding - and every property is different. My home 350 acres borders 14 other adjacent property owners who supply feed in one form or another. But none provide feed during the summer - except me - and they all know my property holds the most deer - because they all put their feeders within sight of my property line. I hold a lot of deer and my fawn recruitment is higher than state average - as is the live weight of deer taken off my land.

I have another 62 acres that borders 850 acres of growing up fields. It is a buck mecca early bow season - but I lose almost all my bucks when the ten neighboring lease hunters start putting out bait. I can not compete with the ten of them by myself - even with my six acres of food plots and them with none

I am in an 800 acre lease of prime deer habitat. It is bordered on three sides by folks who feed protein year round. They grow some great bucks. We can not compete with them because we dont start baiting until just before deer season. We have not killed a deer off the 800 acres with intermittent hunting in three years.

I would think Baker might agree that a good supplemental feed program has its benefits. I do believe there is some science to baiting - I dont think you can just go out and put up a big feeder in the middle of your property, fill it with food, and expect it to provide much advantage.

It would suit me if baiting was banned in my area tomorrow - with the caveat that folks would actually stop doing it. No one else around me could compete with my food plots

Below is a rather lengthy article - but intersting to me - on the benefits of supplemental feeding wild bobwhites.

https://talltimbers.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/QuailCall2009.pdf

 

[ksJoe]

Is this a defense of baiting? Doves and deer?

just an observation that regardless of how one feels about it, the outlawing "baiting" is really just a requirement to spend more time.

 

[ksJoe]

It would suit me if baiting was banned in my area tomorrow - with the caveat that folks would actually stop doing it. No one else around me could compete with my food plots

100% agree!
I prefer deer baiting either be legal, or be illegal with aggresive enforcement! I don't have a strong preference between the two.

 

[Turkish]

It would suit me if baiting was banned in my area tomorrow - with the caveat that folks would actually stop doing it.

First, this is about baiting, not supplemental feeding.

Second, speaking of limp-wristed… I’d rather someone argue the virtues of a bright yellow corn pile 4-ft tall than admit they do it begrudgingly. I can’t abide that lack of spine.

And I tell my buds that often.

 

[ksJoe]

First, this is about baiting, not supplemental feeding.

ah, I'm starting to pick up on why you reacted my post the way you did. You seem to see a big difference between "bait" dumped out of a bag and "bait" grown in a food plot. I do no.

The way I see it, there are two meaningful differences between them:
1) time.
2) the attitude from some of those who spend so much time growing their bait.

Back to my prior illustration, the prohibition on baiting migratory game birds outlaws the quick and easy bait of a poor man (a bag of bird seed), but not the bait of a rich man (the time consuming planting that is then mowed or burned). Either will bait the birds well enough, but only those who can afford the time to do it the slow way are allowed. That makes some feel special.

I'm an engineer by day, sitting at my desk. But I spend a lot of time on my land. I do it because I can, and I can enjoy it. But at the end of the day, my food plots, mast trees, and supplemental feeding are all just bait.

 

[Turkish]

ah, I'm starting to pick up on why you reacted my post the way you did. You seem to see a big difference between "bait" dumped out of a bag and "bait" grown in a food plot. I do no.

The way I see it, there are two meaningful differences between them:
1) time.
2) the attitude from some of those who spend so much time growing their bait.

Back to my prior illustration, the prohibition on baiting migratory game birds outlaws the quick and easy bait of a poor man (a bag of bird seed), but not the bait of a rich man (the time consuming planting that is then mowed or burned). Either will bait the birds well enough, but only those who can afford the time to do it the slow way are allowed. That makes some feel special.

I'm an engineer by day, sitting at my desk. But I spend a lot of time on my land. I do it because I can, and I can enjoy it. But at the end of the day, my food plots, mast trees, and supplemental feeding are all just bait.

I didn’t say anything about food plots and I think they’re a distraction to the more meaningful debate — kinda like abortionists bringing up capital punishment. I respect we likely have different experiences based on geography, but, brother, if corn and acorns were equivalent, why is literally everybody using corn in some of the best hardwood ground in the Southeast? There’s a feeder per 14 deer in the state of MS! That wouldn’t be the case if baiting weren’t more effective.

MSU has documented deer concentration near bait sites in comparison to oak flats — mathematically it contradicts the equivalency you give them, bigly.

 

[ksJoe]

if corn and acorns were equivalent, why is literally everybody using corn in some of the best hardwood ground in the Southeast?

I did not say they are equivalent. There's a wide range in effectiveness of various "bait".

 

[Turkish]

I did not say they are equivalent. There's a wide range in effectiveness of various "bait".

But at the end of the day, my food plots, mast trees, and supplemental feeding are all just bait.

 

[SwampCat]

This year there was a bumper acorn crop in my area. While deer really cut back on provided feed - they never quit it. Food plots, however, were entirely ignored until very late Dec

Deer and hunters in my area have both evolved. When I bought my place almost 25 years ago - nobody provided feed and very few people planted a food plot. About 15 years ago, a few folks started providing some feed during season - almost always corn. I was late to the game and started about ten years ago. Most of the neighbors provide corn in a spin feeder. I experimented more with types of food and method of distribution and found there was a huge difference in type of food and method of distribution where the neighbors stuck with corn and spin feeders. The deer, especially the bucks - but the does to some extent - became much more nocturnal. To the point I would go all year and maybe get one shooting light picture of a buck. They werent like that ten years ago. The hogs did the same thing, but went nocturnal much quicker than did the deer

While the meigjbors intent was to kill deer over their bait, mine was more of a defensive nature - to give deer the same opportunity on my property they had on the neighbors’ land - in hopes they spent more time on my land than their land. I am firmly convinced it helped to some degree. I will admit to killing one deer over bait.

There are very few people who deer hunt near me that dont hunt over a bait pile. There are generations of hunters who only know hunting over bait. In a state such as AR, where hunting over bait is the norm, and even allowing the use of bait in cwd zones - I dont ever see going back. Even if they did, many members on this forum from non baiting states admit there are pallets full of corn in many of the stores that disappear fast during deer season. I expect that hunters who are as deeply entrenched in baiting as they are in this state, would not be willing to stop baiting if it were ever made illegal.

 

[ksJoe]

need help?
many things draw deer and be called bait, but they're not all equivalent.
Just like many things can be called a car, but they're not equivalent. A Geo Metro and a Porsche will both get you across town. Everyone agrees they're both "cars", but that doesn't make them equals.

Some people think just because they worked so hard on something others should value it as much as they do. But the deer don't care about our feelings. Deer don't care how long and hard we work for them. And when the neighbor busts out a $7 bag of corn, its hurts people's feelings that they can't tell the deer how to feel.

 

[BenA]

Baiting, even defensive baiting, has the purpose of altering deer movements in order to increase chances of killing them at some point in their lives. Planted food, planted trees that drop fruit, travel corridors, forest stand improvements, and other sorts of habitat manipulations, all serve the same purpose, or we wouldn't be doing them. Some people draw their ethical lines at different points. Some people don't think food plots or bait trees planted to draw deer to them are ethical. Are you unethical because you plant an apple tree that's going to pull deer in? Are you unethical because you planted an opening with food in order to draw deer to it? Are you unethical because you created an area for deer to specifically bed in so you can kill them going out or in? Are you unethical because you create a path for deer to walk down travelling to something else you created in order to kill them? Are you unethical because you put a feeder in the middle of your property to draw deer to it? There is always someone that is going to be higher and mightier than another.

 

[H20fwler]

You cannot control how others legally hunt.
If they put out feed or grow it, how they manipulate cover and water…what bow or gun they hunt with.

Much more important things in life to worry about, don’t think about how the neighbors hunt just enjoy your season and family.

 

[SwampCat]

You cannot control how others legally hunt.
If they put out feed or grow it, how they manipulate cover and water…what bow or gun they hunt with.

Much more important things in life to worry about, don’t think about how the neighbors hunt just enjoy your season and family.

I started baiting because of my neighbors. I have a number of ten to twenty acre neighbors. They dont have equipment or food plots. They have very poor deer habitat. They cant afford a lease, but they like to kill a few deer each year for the freezer and put the grandkids from town on the gun. We were killing three to five off our 350 acres and they were killing a dozen off their combined fifty acres.

Yes - it bothered me. I was planting 30 acres of food plots and they were dumping out a few bags of corn and killing four times as many deer. I even had our state’s head deer biologist, his assistant and the area biologist down. They basically said yes, I have a problem, but we cant manage every corner of every county.

That is when I started baiting - among a few other things. I put up three spin feeders parallel to the neighbors killing most of the deer, and kept them going year round. The doe herds slowly built over the years - doubling over ten years. A couple of the grand daughters took their first deer off one of those feeders. The other two have never been hunted during those ten years.

Then I started putting out protein in June and continuing until mid oct when the acorns started falling. That attracted even more deer - and especially bucks. But cwd regs will put a stop to that. No more baiting from Jan 1 through the end of Aug. I think that is going to negatively affect my deer numbers

But, I have changed since the first bait was put out ten years ago. I have killed one deer in the past six years - and killed it off public. I could kill a deer everyday I hunt - but choose not to. And to be honest, I think my neighbors are slowing down some, also.

But no doubt, baiting has helped increase my deer numbers. I have killed one deer over bait in my life. But, I have spent a lot of time attempting to kill a big buck over a bait pile - but the bucks have adjusted and largely become nocturnal. There were more mature bucks on my property last year than there ever has been - and two of them were killed - and neither on bait - both chasing does in a food plot

I dont worry about my neighbors much anymore. I worry about the things I can control. I still spend a fair bit of time hunting, but rarely kill one. Not sure what I am going to do with the money I save on feeding this year due to the new cwd regs - maybe some trackhoe work on the duck holes and trails - or maybe a flail mower. And we probably wont kill anymore 200 lb bucks.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I did defensive baiting for the last four years. Spent thousands a year to learn a valuable lesson. It doesn’t work. Rut+rifle is the great destroyer of age structure.

 

[BenA]

What I've learned from hunting in a heavily baited area, is the people that consistently bait for the entirety of the baiting season, have more kills and pictures of the top of the age structure available in an area. The age structure may suck, but baiting increases encounters on those properties due to a constant, reliable, preferred food source being available. Deer aren't going to ignore those sources, even if they have to go at night. If you're not baiting, you may still have them using your property, but they're going to be doing it less than if you would have bait.

 

[SwampCat]

I did defensive baiting for the last four years. Spent thousands a year to learn a valuable lesson. It doesn’t work. Rut+rifle is the great destroyer of age structure.

You are 100% correct - rut+rifle is the great destroyer of age structure. It is not crossbows. In AR, rifle hunters kill more deer the first day of season than crossbow hunters kill in five months.

As far as defensive baiting goes, I would say it is very property specific. I have a 62 acre piece of property adjacent to an 800 acre lease - I can not outbait my neighbors on my small piece of property compared to the scale they control. I lease an 800 acre property bordered on three sides where the hunters provide bait year round - and it does not work there either because the hunters with me on that lease are not serious about deer hunting there and can not compete with the guys who live on the adjacent properties.

Where it does work, is my home ground - where I can out compete 14 adjacent neighbors because I can exert full time effort with spin feeders and other bait stations - over the long term - ten years now. No - I dont stop them from killing deer - in fact, they probably kill the same amount - I just hold a lot more deer than I used to.

Every property is different. I own two properties in the same river bottom, six miles apart - that manage nothing alike. I dont feel like there are many absolutes in deer management that are true on every property in every state

 

[ksJoe]

I started baiting because of my neighbors. I have a number of ten to twenty acre neighbors. They dont have equipment or food plots. They have very poor deer habitat

I dont worry about my neighbors much anymore. I worry about the things I can control.

a thought - on something under your control. Since their properties are small with poor habitat, how would a high fence along the property line affect the situation? I could imagine (depending on the geography) it might have no impact or it might significanlty reduce traffic on their small parcels. For example, if the area is barren land, then their little parcels, then your good habitat, a fence might change things.


My neighbors do allow someone to hunt their land, but I've not had any issues clearly attributable to them.

 

[SwampCat]

a thought - on something under your control. Since their properties are small with poor habitat, how would a high fence along the property line affect the situation? I could imagine (depending on the geography) it might have no impact or it might significanlty reduce traffic on their small parcels. For example, if the area is barren land, then their little parcels, then your good habitat, a fence might change things.


My neighbors do allow someone to hunt their land, but I've not had any issues clearly attributable to them.

It would take about a 1 1/4 mile of fence to do that. If I had funny money, I might think about it - not even close now

 

[Turkish]

I’m going to reiterate that I say these same things to my best friends — so please don’t take this as being disrespectful. There are some on this board I don’t care for, but they’ve stayed out of this thread so far.

For you defensive baiters: have some principles. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Doing nothing means baiting because you think you need to. I fear we’re too far in to ever turn back because the defensive baiters have made the habit essentially ubiquitous.

Lastly, you’re either indifferent, pro-baiting, or against it. This is a topic without much nuance.
- No one can be truly indifferent and actually spending money on bait, much less typing paragraphs defending it, so I’ll ignore that group.
- If you’re against it, see paragraph 2.
- If you’re for it, at least own it and don’t beat around the bush. I’ll pray for you… nobody’s perfect. ;)

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m going to reiterate that I say these same things to my best friends — so please don’t take this as being disrespectful. There are some on this board I don’t care for, but they’ve stayed out of this thread so far.

For you defensive baiters: have some principles. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Doing nothing means baiting because you think you need to. I fear we’re too far in to ever turn back because the defensive baiters have made the habit essentially ubiquitous.

Lastly, you’re either indifferent, pro-baiting, or against it. This is a topic without much nuance.
- No one can be truly indifferent and actually spending money on bait, much less typing paragraphs defending it, so I’ll ignore that group.
- If you’re against it, see paragraph 2.
- If you’re for it, at least own it and don’t beat around the bush. I’ll pray for you… nobody’s perfect. ;)

meh. I’ve never baited but if it were legal and I was surrounded by neighbors who do, I’d probably do it. I’d love to just shoot 5+ year old deer too but they are never on my land. Don’t feel like I cheated principles by shooting a buck finally this year on year 4 that was 3 or 4.