Anybody not into travel hunts?

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Guided hunts on the north american continent are rich mans game. My Son in Law really likes bear bow hunting. He and my Daughter were about to book a hunt at an outfitters Alberta tent camp, two bear area for him to hunt and her to relax and observe. I think it was between 8 and 10 grand all in. My son, who goes to africa every year - asked them why they didnt go to Africa. Long story short, for $2k more, they went to south africa, stayed in a five star lodge and i think killed 8 animals between them - and saw things they will never see here. My Son in Law went on a canada bear hunt last June and spent almost $4k and did not see a bear that weighed over 150 lbs.

Isn’t Africa all high fence? Just curious. I’ve thought I read that most are

 

[SwampCat]

Isn’t Africa all high fence? Just curious. I’ve thought I read that most are

South Africa is - but several thousand acres fenced is not really like high fenced. It is more to keep the poachers out than the animals in. South Africa is very commercialized toward sport hunting. It has more amenities and is cheaper. My son goes to zimbabwe. When I went with him, we hunted a 550,000 acre concession with no fence. But when he hunted his leopard, he hunted a 30,000 acre concession with fence. An 8 ft fence does nothing to impede a leopard - but it does deter most lions - so the plains game population is higher - and the leopards come in to eat the plains game. Right next to the 30,000 acre concession was a 1,000,000 acre high fenced concession where the lions were becoming over populated and eating everything but the govt would still not allow more lion quota. In Zim, even if high fenced, quota is still determined by the game and parks department.

They have a different outlook on high fence than many folks in the US. They look at it as a management tool to help reduce poaching and predation - not as a method to corral the animals to make hunting easier. Fencing is also used as a method to control predation. Since the govt in Zim controls quota - dont know about SA - the safari company or landowner can not control the lion or leopard or elephant population. Where we hunted in the unfenced area, plains game was very difficult to find because the poachers and lions ate them up. Two of the plains game that were killed on that trip had a snare on them they broke free from. It was easier to see an elephant or buffalo than a kudu, zebra, or impala.

Son said in the 30,000 acre high fenced area where he leopard hunted, there were no lions or poaching - plains game was plentiful - like you would expect to see in Africa. The PH’s that come stay at our place between the DSC and SCI are trying to get a lioness quota to help control the lions - but govt will not approve. Part of that is not the govt’s fault, but the bleeding hearts all over the globe who have never been to Africa putting pressure on their Govt.

Place my son hunted last year was so over populated with elephant, they were stunted. He estimated he saw 1500 to 2000 elephant in a week and never saw a minimally shooter bull. Said the entire forest had been ripped down and nothing living over about 8 ft tall. Had displaced a lot of game species that depended on more tree cover.

Americans have this idea of a high fence in their mind - but it is not really used the same in Africa. We dont have folks sneaking onto our hunting land setting snares and putting out poisoned oranges. We dont have a pride of a dozen lions coming in and eating every deer off our land. We dont have a 1000 elephants stripping the bark and breaking trees over tens of thousands of acres. Most of us dont control 30,000 to 1,000,000 acres.

Folks need to understand Africa is not the US and look at things differently to understand. If you have never been, that is a little harder to do

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Good explanation. I only ask because I thought I saw that big kruger park was high fenced. You mean the locals aren’t good stewards of the land…I’m shocked

 

[SwampCat]

No doubt Africa offers allot of bang for the buck. Tho....you gotta travel more....and there are a few more uncertainties.

No doubt. Big uncertainty right now is the pres of South Africa going to give all the big ranches to the black population, like they did in Zimbabwe 20 years ago. Most of the PH’s in Zim are the sons of big land owners - whose land was repatriated to the natives or the military - in other words - stolen. One of them we hunted with - their family lost a 180,000 acre working ranch.

Yes, the travel can be brutal. I think about 16 hours from atlanta to South Johannesburg - and you aint done when you get there.

And the animals over there are much more likely to kill or maim you. When we got there, our ph’s forearm was bandaged from a wounded leopard attack. Four weeks before, a customer had been stomped by a cow elephant. We were bluff charged once by four cow elephants that did stop about 25 yards away and threw dirt at us with their trunks. We were also charged by a cow elephant that had a calf that stopped about 25 ft from us after two rounds of .458 Lott right over her head. Screen shot below of a video I took of that action



One of the ph’s that was at our place this year said this past summer during a hunt, a lizard scurried out of the trail, startling him - he jumped back and landed on a spitting cobra. The cobra did spit, but did not get it in his eyes. While getting untangled from the cobra, he fell off a 16’ cliff. That broke a two inch long splinter off one of his lower leg bones.

I was sitting at the campfire area one night drinking a cold one. I was first one to get there. I saw something move and looked down to see a six ft black mamba crawling down the side of my shoe and around the toe. Snake and boot track in sand below.



Every step of the hunt I was on in Zimbabwe, there was a govt game scout walking with a fully loaded AK 47. It was not for protection from the animals, but the poachers.

South Africa is much more tame and commercialized. More like hunting in the US with modern amenities. Areas north of there, not as much. Everyday I was there, I was first one to get up in morning - I couldnt wait to go out for the day.

 

[SwampCat]

Good explanation. I only ask because I thought I saw that big kruger park was high fenced. You mean the locals aren’t good stewards of the land…I’m shocked

If there was not safari hunting that employed the natives and donated to schools, etc - the natives would have killed every living thing. Look at Kenya - where sport hunting is illegal. The only place there are decent populations of game animals are in the parks and preserves

One of the ph’s whose family land was repatriated, said they had a 300 acre producing pecan grove of prime 50 yr old trees. The govt gave that land to the natives and within three years, they had cut the entire 300 acres for firewood.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I know of a guy who owns a big fertilizer operation in Mozambique or one of those countries north of South Africa. Multi generation family there. Said in either his country or one of the neighboring ones, they stole the farmland from the white farmers and the “natives” thought the land was magic so they just waited from the crops to grow…I’m sure we are now airlifting food to them 20 years later waiting for their bumper crop.

 

[SwampCat]

I know of a guy who owns a big fertilizer operation in Mozambique or one of those countries north of South Africa. Multi generation family there. Said in either his country or one of the neighboring ones, they stole the farmland from the white farmers and the “natives” thought the land was magic so they just waited from the crops to grow…I’m sure we are now airlifting food to them 20 years later waiting for their bumper crop.

When the whites owned the land it was known as Rhodesia - the bread basket of Africa. They exported ag crops. The name was changed to Zimbabwe - The blacks were given the land and equipment and now they are starving to death. One of the ph’s told me a just this year, they are starting to let the whites be farm managers, to hopefully get the land to produce again.

That is what I dont understand about South Africa. They have a perfect example on their northern border of what will happen when you take good producing land from the whites. Idiocy - doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

When the whites owned the land it was known as Rhodesia - the bread basket of Africa. They exported ag crops. The name was changed to Zimbabwe - The blacks were given the land and equipment and now they are starving to death. One of the ph’s told me a just this year, they are starting to let the whites be farm managers, to hopefully get the land to produce again.

That is what I dont understand about South Africa. They have a perfect example on their northern border of what will happen when you take good producing land from the whites. Idiocy - doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results.

Well whites are the devil over there soooo…..

 

[bigboreblr]

Coming back from a cruise to the bahamas, Im just fine being on US soil. Royal Caribbean was real smart building their own private island.

Most of my tresstands at camp have a bucket with rocks in it Instead of shooting bears I throw rocks at them to shoo em off. Never been into hunting bears. Sometimes dont even get my phone out to take a pic.

Ducks were ruined for me. When my dog was a pup, we went to a friends lake house. Dog ran out on the dock at night and fell in. Didn't care for water after that.

Early in my career I was asked to go to this n that 3rd world country and put together or run powerplants for them. GE energy in Alaska sounded real nice though. Debeers in canada ws building a new cogen plant, misses said no though.

Been saving since the early 2000's for my retirement, a 32ft sailboat or smaller cruiser yatch. Seeing the old boat bums on my cruise got me thinking, I really got no bucket list things anymore. Wife wants nothing to do with hitting the coastal highway. Maybe I should throw a hunt in the list. Anybody go on a hunt a reasonable distance from NY. Canada caribou or moose. Maybe even a good charter on lake ontario.

MY last real bucket thing...... In 2020 with covid coming out, I set out to be at hunting camp each month of the year and setup some foodplots. This year I am going for a monthly party boat visit from april to november. Ive had so much fun on those things over the years. Used to live 30 minutes from captree park. They litterally have a line of 20 different ones to go on. Likely do most of them from point pleasant / manaquan inlet in NJ about a little over 2 hours away. October will likely be a point juidth RI charter. November a few days before thanksgiving has been a Tog trip in atlantic city NJ. Might finish up with a private charter in topsail NC. Think the wife wants to do that thanksgiving week. Uncle's are all in their 80's, so she might change her mind if one gets sick or something.

 

[Baker]

Guess I've travelled to hunt my whole life. Live in Central La.yet growing up hunting property was along the Ms. River in north La. Was a dream come true property for a kid to grow up on.My father started leasing property in South Tx when I was a teenager. Quail, deer, doves. Hunted every year there. Took a fall semester off from college to be a quail guide. Good stuff Great dogs.When King Ranch opened up property for non family to lease we were there the first year. Amazing property . Amazing education into wildlife. Truly a Paradise. But stupid expensive.

I started going to Mexico to hunt in the early 80's. Hundreds of thousands of acres of brush unpopulated by many humans. I decided to buy property there figuring if I could keep it 7 years I'd break even on the cost of King Ranch lease. Been 28 years.

I echo everything Swamp has said about Africa. Amazing place, been there 6 times. Kenya, S.Africa, Zimbabwe, Tanzania---Thats as stunning as place in the world for wildlife and beautiful Course the Africans have an incredible capacity to screw it up. I never thought I would want to go to Africa. But once done it is infectious. Besides , best time is summer when it's too hot to breathe in La. Nothing like having a herd of Cape buffalo at 35 yards about to shoot one remembering they are the most dangerous animal on earth. Shoot a deer it might run 100 yards away from you. The buff just might come looking for you to turn you into an ink spot.

Beyond that have sheep hunted Alaska, Canada and Mongolia. Big fun but have aged out of mountain hunting preferring a bit more creature comfort. Dove hunted Argentina several times. Prefer the dove, duck, perdiz, golden Dorado combo trips. Mule Deer in Utah and Montana. Elk hunted Colorado and Utah. Of alll the trips I think one particular elk hunting in Utah was the most fun hunt of my life. 250,000 acre ranch. Tent far up in the mountains which were in full fall beauty. Elk screaming all day and all night. Magnificent!

One of the greatest privileges of my life has been to travel around hunting and fishing.wife wants me to go to London this year...yuk. However white bass fishing on the Sabine River where it runs into Toledo Bend....I"m in