Aging Bucks - Stained bands on forehead

[BenA]

I checked the five 4.5 to 5.5 year old bucks I have, all taken during the rut. Only 1 exhibited a small amount of this trait. I see more brow coloring based on trees rubbed. In N. Alberta, darker because of black spruce and around here more rusty due to Tamarack, birch, & aspen.

From what I understand, the staining isn't permanent in most cases. It's a product of the increased gland secretions in the rut. I would imagine taxidermy hide prep could remove a lot of the chemical compounds that make up the staining. Summer and pre-rut bucks don't exhibit it.

 

[BenA]

Beginning to possibly doubt the stained forehead bands idea. I believe this one has what Dr. Kroll is talking about, but he's only 1.5.

 

[BenA]

I heard back from Dr. Kroll. He says, "If a buck has a stained forehead AND staining down the back of its legs from tarsal
Gland to hooves, he is 4.5 years or older. Next, biology is not based on the exception, rather on the normal! And, when you produced a scientifically valid
Study that shows a statistically significant number of immature bucks have those two characteristics, I will revised my recommendation! In the meantime have a great day!"

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Sounds like he moved the goalpost which is fine but according to the original post it was the forehead. At some point it becomes like counting the rings on a rams horns, too hard to do in the field. I don’t fault him for doing the study, it’s interesting, just not sure how applicable it is in the field

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I heard back from Dr. Kroll. He says, "If a buck has a stained forehead AND staining down the back of its legs from tarsal
Gland to hooves, he is 4.5 years or older. Next, biology is not based on the exception, rather on the normal! And, when you produced a scientifically valid
Study that shows a statistically significant number of immature bucks have those two characteristics, I will revised my recommendation! In the meantime have a great day!"

Is his claim based on "a scientifically valid study"?

Let me start off by saying I work in academia and actively publish research in my field in relevant peer-reviewed journals. The next statement doesn't apply to many and certainly not most in academia, but it is worth pointing out that there are experts out there that make all kinds of claims that are not based on research. I think this tends to happen with people later in their careers who do not need to publish and do not need to worry about getting promoted another time. He better than anyone should know better, but they get passes because of their earlier accomplishments. He could very well be onto something, but as far as I can tell, this is just his belief based on years of observation. I went to Google Scholar and Web of Science and could not find the study this thread is about, so his snarky comment at the end of his response seems a bit unnecessary if not hypocritical.

 

[KY wild]

https://www.fieldandstream.com/hunting/hunter-shoots-albino-buck-in-kentucky

I found the above article interesting because of how it added to the discussion about stained foreheads and age. I also wonder if the landowner sold the rights to this deer to highest bidder or how it went down that out of state hunter killed this rare deer.

 

[Mortenson]

I heard back from Dr. Kroll. He says, "If a buck has a stained forehead AND staining down the back of its legs from tarsal
Gland to hooves, he is 4.5 years or older. Next, biology is not based on the exception, rather on the normal! And, when you produced a scientifically valid
Study that shows a statistically significant number of immature bucks have those two characteristics, I will revised my recommendation! In the meantime have a great day!"

Does this qualify as enough staining from the tarsal glands? Can this deer be aged as a minimum 4.5? I'm uncertain of this deer's age, but he's definitely not ancient.

 

[BenA]

Does this qualify as enough staining from the tarsal glands? Can this deer be aged as a minimum 4.5? I'm uncertain of this deer's age, but he's definitely not ancient.

View attachment 74025View attachment 74026

After paying closer attention to some of the bucks I saw this year, I'm not sure about Dr. Kroll's staining theory. I saw some obvious 1.5 yo bucks with a good amount of staining. I need to pay closer attention to the bands of staining that run from the tarsal glands down to the hooves before I totally buy into it. I really don't know at this point. I think he would say on that one, if the bands of staining are present on the forehead, then that buck would be at least 4.5 due to those bands of staining dripping down from the tarsals to the hooves.

 

[letemgrow]

I've noticed that on some bucks and not others. Seems to be at least somewhat linked to genetics....IMO from personal experience and no exact data points for a comparison.

Here’s the buck at 3 on the left on October 5th with a buck on the right that’s 4 last year.

Here’s his forehead this year in late November as a 4 year old.

 

[Mortenson]

After paying closer attention to some of the bucks I saw this year, I'm not sure about Dr. Kroll's staining theory. I saw some obvious 1.5 yo bucks with a good amount of staining. I need to pay closer attention to the bands of staining that run from the tarsal glands down to the hooves before I totally buy into it. I really don't know at this point. I think he would say on that one, if the bands of staining are present on the forehead, then that buck would be at least 4.5 due to those bands of staining dripping down from the tarsals to the hooves.

Thanks. He's the deer my son shot this year. I'm unable to age him. Confident in lumping him in the "either 3 or 4" group. Some deer don't seem to fit the mold. The pics here show he did have some staining of the head. Although not as deeply as others.

Thread 'The oldest connected'

Dec 8, 2024

Chris hunted hard all 7 days of the gun season to date. He was happy to connect on this 7 pointer tonight. From sightings this fall and trail cam pics, we were figuring he was a minimum of 3.5. 350 legend. 45 yard shot.

• Mortenson
• Replies: 11
• Forum: Successful Hunts

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