204 or 223?

[Wind Gypsy]

This was the darling round in the 80's and 90's. SAKO first introduced rifles in this caliber. Very accurate and found at all the bench rest competition. Efficient cartridge. I bought a new Ruger M77 Varmint / Target with laminated stock and a sweet trigger...in the early 90's that was chambered in the 22PPC from the factory (quite rare). These came in SS and with big name 28" barrels ( I think they were Kreiger match barrels)....or maybe it was Shilen?). Wears a 6x20 Luepold scope. Shoots like a house afire.

Ruger got in a lawsuit with the folks at PPC (round creators) and stopped producing the gun.....'cause they did not want to pay the royalty to PPC.....who were some benchrest shooters....whom developed the round from the 22 Russian parent case (Palmer Palimasono?). I think I 'm gonna put it on Gun Broker with match dies and a few hundred loaded rounds. I have not shot this gun in a decade....time to clean out some stuff. Same for my Browning 1885 falling block high wall....beutiful gun that I dont shoot anymore.

You can't take em with you. Grin.

The original 22 valkyrie or 22 Noser type cartridge.. Just not designed for an AR.

 

[Catscratch]

This was the darling round in the 80's and 90's. SAKO first introduced rifles in this caliber. Very accurate and found at all the bench rest competition. Efficient cartridge. I bought a new Ruger M77 Varmint / Target with laminated stock and a sweet trigger...in the early 90's that was chambered in the 22PPC from the factory (quite rare). These came in SS and with big name 28" barrels ( I think they were Kreiger match barrels)....or maybe it was Shilen?). Wears a 6x20 Luepold scope. Shoots like a house afire.

Ruger got in a lawsuit with the folks at PPC (round creators) and stopped producing the gun.....'cause they did not want to pay the royalty to PPC.....who were some benchrest shooters....whom developed the round from the 22 Russian parent case (Palmer Palimasono?). I think I 'm gonna put it on Gun Broker with match dies and a few hundred loaded rounds. I have not shot this gun in a decade....time to clean out some stuff. Same for my Browning 1885 falling block high wall....beutiful gun that I dont shoot anymore.

You can't take em with you. Grin.

Interesting stuff!

My Darling round in the 80's and 90's was the good old 7.62x39 in the SKS. Seems like I shot millions of those things at the time. Could buy a SKS at the local pawn shop for $89 all day every day.

 

[Foggy47]

Interesting stuff!

My Darling round in the 80's and 90's was the good old 7.62x39 in the SKS. Seems like I shot millions of those things at the time. Could buy a SKS at the local pawn shop for $89 all day every day.

Yep. Never owned one of those, but they were all the rage with many. Cheap to buy and cheap to shoot.

I liked the 22PPC as it was faster than the 223 with the same bullets and used less powder to achieve this. Zero recoil in that heavy VT gun. That was a factor in keeping your barrel cooler and the sharp shoulder did not require regular trimming when reloading. This cartridge was the onset of the "short and fat" cartridge movement. The accuracy is noticeably better too......most accurate factory cartridge ever offered?? I think it and the 6 PPC may be that. I bought all Norma brass and Redding competition dies and so forth.....'cause I was pretty into it at that time. That Ruger M77 VT may be the among the best Ruger guns made. Odd for them to go to an outside source for barrels....but they did. Maybe they wanted to make a statement? I own a custom benchers rifle too (in 6PPC) and while the BR Rifle is more accurate.....it's not by very much.

 

[roymunson]

my 223 will probably do anything I want in a 55 grain bullet.

I know it's not up to par with a 223 or a 22-250, but I may end up going with a 17 hmr in a rimfire just for kicks. We'll see what the shops have in stock.

 

[Telemark]

If you're going the 17 route, have a look at the 17 Hornet.

 

[b116757]

Yep. Never owned one of those, but they were all the rage with many. Cheap to buy and cheap to shoot.

I liked the 22PPC as it was faster than the 223 with the same bullets and used less powder to achieve this. Zero recoil in that heavy VT gun. That was a factor in keeping your barrel cooler and the sharp shoulder did not require regular trimming when reloading. This cartridge was the onset of the "short and fat" cartridge movement. The accuracy is noticeably better too......most accurate factory cartridge ever offered?? I think it and the 6 PPC may be that. I bought all Norma brass and Redding competition dies and so forth.....'cause I was pretty into it at that time. That Ruger M77 VT may be the among the best Ruger guns made. Odd for them to go to an outside source for barrels....but they did. Maybe they wanted to make a statement? I own a custom benchers rifle too (in 6PPC) and while the BR Rifle is more accurate.....it's not by very much.

Ruger didn’t start making their own barrels until fairly recently when they bought hammer forging equipment prior to that is was low bid from several different manufacturers and sometimes their barrel quality suffered quite a bit because of it. I had one of those Ruger M77 target models I bought new in the 90’s I traded that gun for another and pretty much swore off selling or trading another gun as long as I live because of it. I miss that gun.

 

[Foggy47]

Ruger didn’t start making their own barrels until fairly recently when they bought hammer forging equipment prior to that is was low bid from several different manufacturers and sometimes their barrel quality suffered quite a bit because of it. I had one of those Ruger M77 target models I bought new in the 90’s I traded that gun for another and pretty much swore off selling or trading another gun as long as I live because of it. I miss that gun.

I did not know that about the Ruger barrels. I was always under the impression they made their own. I had a heart to heart with a gun smith friend of mine....over an old Ruger Vermonter I had (and still have today). I had shot that barrel out....had a long throat from extensive use. So I wanted him to rebarrell it and true the action. He said he hated working with a Ruger Action because they were investment cast and were not round so he could not easily get them into his lathe....etc. I liked the claw extractor and spent time talking him into making a fixture to true-up that action. Later he did quiet a few Ruger's as a result of having that fixture.

On my gun I got a Shllen select match barrel....and he fluted the barrel and made it quite striking in stainless and black flutes. We put on a McMilllan fiberglass black stock with grey accents that was retrofitted for a Sake action....and it had some nice palm swells and a bit of cast off for better eye alignment. Super crisp trigger. Beautiful gun. I had that gun chambered for 243 Ackley Improved and have a slow twist in it. Always wanted to use it for long range coyote, antelope, or prairie dogs.......but never shot it too much. Made custom dies for it too. Kinda wish I had not put that slow twist barrel on it. It shoots fine....but I doubt you could stabilize more than an 80 grain bullet with it. I made it as a switch / barrel affair....where you can easily unthread one barrel and install another.....and had intended to also have made a 7mm/08 barrel for deer. Never got that done and Stan (my gunsmith on that project has died). I used to take that gun to the SHOT Show quite a bit to demo my tools. It was such a "striking" piece. I bet I have not shot it a hundred times.

Cat....are you listening? grin.

 

[b116757]

I love the old Rugers myself but you never knew if your gun would have a great barrel or an inaccurate copper fouling monster. The 22 caliber barrels seemed to reliably be more accurate than say the 30 caliber’s were. I have two 223 M77 that shoot very well and two M77 22LR that are exceptionally accurate. My M77 30-06 is questionable at best it is better since running the David Tubb fire lapping bullets threw it good enough for 100 yd and under deer hunting. My 243 M77 is slightly better than the 30-06. My 7mm M77 shot so badly I sold it and it’s the only other gun I have every sold or traded and I hated that one so much it didn’t hurt my feelings at all to see it go. My brother had a twin 7mm M77 that has always been spectacularly accurate. I’m sure this is the exact reason Ruger finally brought barrel manufacturing in house so they had total control over QC. I believe the new Hawkeye Rugers have excellent accuracy as do the American series Rugers.

That 20 Practical round uses necked down 223 brass hence the name “ Practical” if I where looking at a 20 caliber that one would be my choice you would never have to worry about it falling out of favor and becoming difficult to get brass.

 

[Foggy47]

Back int the day....I often wondered why nobody made a 20 caliber round. Also wondered shy no 29 caliber or 32 caliber was offered. We just about maxed everything else out...why not a few more. lol. Well....here we are. Grin.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Also wondered shy no 29 caliber or 32 caliber was offered. We just about maxed everything else out...why not a few more. lol. Well....here we are. Grin.

May be different now than then but everyone sees how .257 and .277 bore diameters are the redheaded stepchildren of bullet options, almost certain to fail with an even less prevalent bore diameter.

 

[Foggy47]

May be different now than then but everyone sees how .257 and .277 bore diameters are the redheaded stepchildren of bullet options, almost certain to fail with an even less prevalent bore diameter.

I agree. there are already a few too many cartridge combinations out there. But seeing as popular as the 7MM is (.284) and the 30 caliber is (.308) you'd think someone would find an in between diameter at about .296" and find some magic bean. .296 DragonSlayer? lol.

 

[bigboreblr]

Interesting stuff!

My Darling round in the 80's and 90's was the good old 7.62x39 in the SKS. Seems like I shot millions of those things at the time. Could buy a SKS at the local pawn shop for $89 all day every day.

About 10 years ago, I tuned up a few model 59 yugo SKS and was doing military matches against AR's and M1A's locally. Moslty offhand at 100 yards, but also some prone 300. Mild days I was neck in neck, real windy days was tougher..... Quit when I was doing too good and said the lyman peep sight was a no-no.

One of my most favorite guns is a CZ 457 ulta lux in 22lr. The youngest should have a good 22lr bolt gun. I think ruger makes one with an adjustable stock.

 

[Teeder]

I agree. there are already a few too many cartridge combinations out there. But seeing as popular as the 7MM is (.284) and the 30 caliber is (.308) you'd think someone would find an in between diameter at about .296" and find some magic bean. .296 DragonSlayer? lol.

A number of years ago, gun writer John Barsness wrote a spoof article about developing a .29 cartridge with gun smith Charlie Sisk. I think he called it the .29 BS. It had such a high BC that it actually gained velocity down range.

 

[chaded]

I have a cz .204 and it is a very nice gun. Coyotes here must not be as tough because everyone I have shot drops and some of them have some gruesome exit wounds. The one groundhog I shot this year looked like someone took a knife and split it open and laid the guts put beside it.

With that said, if you are going to shoot factory rounds I wouldn’t get it. I just went well over a year before I could find any ammo for mind and I almost sold it to get a .223. But that would be the only reason I wouldn’t get one, not because it’s not lethal…

 

[yoderjac]

Got some cash burning a hole in my pocket and wanna get another good varmint gun. i have a plain jane TC 223 that works. I also have my 243 cva cascade that I enjoy. But I have a couple sons who are gonna wanna shoot groundhogs and would be interested in a different build. There's a thought to get a Tikka 223 and be able to shoot heavies out of it and possibly have a WV deer rifle, but a 204 sounds kinda fun too.

I'm gonna shoot factory rounds for now, so gotta be able to buy them somewhere.

Maybe a 22-250?

Considered a .17?

 

[Catscratch]

I have a cz .204 and it is a very nice gun. Coyotes here must not be as tough because everyone I have shot drops and some of them have some gruesome exit wounds. The one groundhog I shot this year looked like someone took a knife and split it open and laid the guts put beside it.

With that said, if you are going to shoot factory rounds I wouldn’t get it. I just went well over a year before I could find any ammo for mind and I almost sold it to get a .223. But that would be the only reason I wouldn’t get one, not because it’s not lethal…

My dad has shot several yotes with a .17hmr. Says every one of them just "poof" and fall in their tracks. He doesn't take long shots at them though.

 

[bigboreblr]

One big plus of a 223. IF you learn how to shoot it well, a 270 win is real close trajectory wise. Know two guns well buy making them as similar as possible.

Pretty much done that over the years with my 450 marlin / 50 cal inline muzzleloader set. They have the same scopes and zeros are the same too. Although the marlin can go a bit more flatter, I can react the same up to 200 yards.

 

[b116757]

I have a cz .204 and it is a very nice gun. Coyotes here must not be as tough because everyone I have shot drops and some of them have some gruesome exit wounds. The one groundhog I shot this year looked like someone took a knife and split it open and laid the guts put beside it.

With that said, if you are going to shoot factory rounds I wouldn’t get it. I just went well over a year before I could find any ammo for mind and I almost sold it to get a .223. But that would be the only reason I wouldn’t get one, not because it’s not lethal…

This right here makes my case for 20 Practical it is simply a necked down 223 to 20 caliber.

 

[North Mo]

223 if I had that many boys to provide ammo for. A fast twist barrel to stabilize heavy bullets if needed and probably an AR because of the easy adjustable stock length.

 

[Kooch]

A decent .223 bolt action is a very useful tool. And, it won’t go “sproing” in your ear every time you pull the trigger. It also won’t feel as if assembled by a plumber.


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