204 or 223?

[roymunson]

Got some cash burning a hole in my pocket and wanna get another good varmint gun. i have a plain jane TC 223 that works. I also have my 243 cva cascade that I enjoy. But I have a couple sons who are gonna wanna shoot groundhogs and would be interested in a different build. There's a thought to get a Tikka 223 and be able to shoot heavies out of it and possibly have a WV deer rifle, but a 204 sounds kinda fun too.

I'm gonna shoot factory rounds for now, so gotta be able to buy them somewhere.

Maybe a 22-250?

 

[Catscratch]

Conventional wisdom is probably that if you have a .223 you don't need a .204. I did a ton of research on the subject and decided if I was to buy a new varmit gun that wasn't a .223 it would be a .17hmr. Main reason is when I shot the .17, .204, and .223 in the same sitting... the .17 was the only one that didn't ring my ears (without muffs). I wanted a "door gun" for spur of the moment shots at yotes. The .17's I have shot are a lot of fun!

 

[bigboreblr]

There's alot of guns out there, many are similar. Why not buy a common caliber? Especially if you shoot factory loads, save some money and disappointment trying to find harder to get ammo.

What I like about 223, it has very similar trajectory to a 270 win. Great practice companion, if your trying to be good at 300 yard shots.

Just bought a 308 over the summer, now I want a 223 again. Just not a 16 inch AR, too loud....

What kind of ranges you talking and what kind of varmits?

 

[roymunson]

i'll be under 300 all the time for varmints. a 17 would be fun. I could head shoot squirrels too if I wanted.

My boys are 5, 8, 10 and I want something that as they grow, one can take a gun and sit at the edge of a hayfield and let it eat.

 

[j-bird]

My "critter gitter" is a 22-250 in a Browning A-bolt rifle. Speed is the name of the game for little critters that are way out there. Most will run from 3,500 fps to 4,000 fps at the muzzle. And with a 200 yard zero the bullet will rise roughly 2" and 4" at 300 yards. That's pretty damn flat.

I can essentially hold dead on from zero out to about 300 yards with a 200 yard zero. Mine is loud due to an adjustable muzzle break to help "tune" the barrel to the load. I like Hornady ammo - 50 gr bullet lists 4,000 fps at the muzzle, and at 200 yard zero....it is .7" high at 100 yards, zero at 200, drops 4.25" at 300. That means if I do my job, that is busting pop cans at 300 yards by simply aiming at the top of the can.

I live in a very flat area.....so 300 yard shot doesn't even cover the entire field. Right off the front porch the tree line is roughly 500 yards away..... So the conditions in which you will be shooting may play into your selection as well. You may not have a 300 shot available....

 

[Bill]

I've got a CZ 527 carbine in .223 and its a tack driver. I just went to look it up on line and it seems they discontinued it. To bad, its a good gun.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm all about the 223. In these times of high ammo costs its hard to beat with factory ammo and reloads. Not hard to get brass for free at the range.

Have you read the giant "223 for elk/bear/moose" thread on rokslide? that's a hell of a sales pitch for an 8 twist tikka 223. I have one that I'll likely rebarrel to a 18" 223AI and shoot suppressed 100% of the time. Fun, cheap, zero recoil/muzzle blast, and will wreck whitetails with the rigth bullets.

 

[Foggy47]

223 for the "all-around" win. But I own each of those calibers said above.....except for that 204. I just read an article on them....and I am intrigued.by what I read. If I still did allot of PD shooting....I would likely want one. Velocities are scary fast. As said tho....buying ammo is a huge consideration these days. I cannot even find factory ammo for my 25-06 deer gun. The common varieties are readily avaiable. I got lot of reloading components....but dont feel like reloading much these days. Times change.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I have a buddy from college that turns triple digits coyotes into pelts annually and one of my main recollections on 204 was him being annoyed by the hype after they came out and he had seen a handful of coyotes run further than he liked after being shot.

 

[Garrett S]

Have a 204 as they’re legal for coyote use during deer season jn NY being less than 22 cal.

A 204 w 39gr bk bullets drops all size coyotes great. Smaller bullets are better for smaller critters IMO.

Have a 204 jn a Ruger American and it shoots fine sized 5shot groups at 100 and stays sub moa to at least 500. Wind can monkey w the round some but feel it will with all three, or any caliber for that matter.

I’ve owned 223 but never loved it. Always enjoyed shooting a 22-250. I hate mayo but nothing wrong with it. To each their own

 

[Foggy47]

When I was into shooting PD's....I'd shoot a 17HMR, 22Mag, 223 Rem, 22PPC, 22-250 and sometimes a 243 Win (all in bolt action rifles (except the 22-250 was a 1885 Browning falling block). One thing became clear....is that the 223 and lower calibers were much preferred as you could see the impact on the Prairie Dogs.....or where you missed by the bullet impact(s). Not so much with the 22.250 and never with the 243.

The recoil too became a bit much with day long shooting of anything but 22 caliber. I liked the rimfire guns as a truck gun out the window.....but they had marginal ability at 100+ yards especially in a wind....and the 17 was not as "spectacular" in killing rodents at max ranges as the 22 Mag. The sweet spot for me was the 223 and 22PPC (my favorite) but those guns lost their appeal at 300 yards or so. Too much drift and bullet drop for reliable shots (especially if it was windy) unless you were willing to spin the target knobs and set up for perfect shot conditions (that kinda shooting is fine at times....but I prefer more trigger pulling and less thinking and fiddling).

That is where the 22.250 came into play. (I had given up on 243 by then). I suppose we could add another 150 yards with a 22-250 or a 243. After those ranges....you really needed secure prone, sand bag rests and turning target knobs to make reliable hits on small targets.....IME. That was fine at times....but we were more into portable benches or truck shooting in those times. Fun.....and ammo was cheap. (we could load 223' with decent bullets, powder and primer for as low as about .12 / round in the '80's. (Hodgedon Powders, Remington Bullets, Win Primers)

The 223 and 22PPC were among the lowest cost to shoot....and we would shoot thousands of rounds some trips. They all have their place....I'd like to tinker with a 204.....but I am getting rid of stuff like that. lol. It's all good.

 

[b116757]

I would suggest a 20 practical over the 204 if you ever plan to reload I’ve been tossing around building a 20 Practical myself but I already have 10 or so 223’s it’s my favorite caliber but one can get bored. I have a 17 HMR and it is a nice caliber also but not really a massive improvement over a 22LR.

 

[Telemark]

I went with 223 for my small game rifle. The ease of finding ammo and after market accessories swayed me. Back when guns were cheap, I got a Savage Axis on super sale, and I couldn't be happier. I can use it on anything up to roe deer, but it's probably a bit light for whitetail, especially a mature buck. People around here even use FMJ ammo for long range hunting of ptarmigan and capercaillie. I've only shot coyotes with it so far since it's still in the US. My big game rifles are 308, and the availability of ammo, silencers, etc. has been great.

I think the 22-250 is pretty cool, but difficulty finding ammo has put me off buying anything chambered in the less common cartridges.

 

[roymunson]

I'm all about the 223. In these times of high ammo costs its hard to beat with factory ammo and reloads. Not hard to get brass for free at the range.

Have you read the giant "223 for elk/bear/moose" thread on rokslide? that's a hell of a sales pitch for an 8 twist tikka 223. I have one that I'll likely rebarrel to a 18" 223AI and shoot suppressed 100% of the time. Fun, cheap, zero recoil/muzzle blast, and will wreck whitetails with the rigth bullets.

the 223 for elk thread is one of the driving factors behind this idea. Realistically, I'm shooting a dozen groundhogs during the summer and having fun throwing lead. Truthfully, I reloaded for 243 this year and used that for my groundhogs as I had an adjustable turret on the scope and had a lot of fun with that. I could use that gun, but I'd like to build something that my kids can shoot.

a 17 would be a fun little gun for sure. I'm hesitant to go back to another 223 as I have one in an AR and one in a bolt gun. While I like them, I already have a couple. I like variety

 

[Teeder]

"I'm hesitant to go back to another 223 as I have one in an AR and one in a bolt gun. While I like them, I already have a couple. I like variety"

My solution is completely crazy, but it's an itch that needs scratched. I'm rebarreling an old Sako Vixen to .221 Fireball. I usually carry a .22 mag, but there's often times it just doesn't have enough range. I have a. 223, but so does everyone else!

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I have a buddy from college that turns triple digits coyotes into pelts annually and one of my main recollections on 204 was him being annoyed by the hype after they came out and he had seen a handful of coyotes run further than he liked after being shot.

This is what we have seen as well. My cousin has a cz 204 that is verry accurate. He got it just after they came out as it was what was being hyped. Another group of guys that hunt a lot of dogs also had them about that time. I'm guessing it was an ammo thing at the time but what I was hearing from them wat that the bullets basically exploded on impact and didn't even penetrate the animal. They had a bunch of yotes get away so they went back to the standard 223s and 22-250's.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

This is what we have seen as well. My cousin has a cz 204 that is verry accurate. He got it just after they came out as it was what was being hyped. Another group of guys that hunt a lot of dogs also had them about that time. I'm guessing it was an ammo thing at the time but what I was hearing from them wat that the bullets basically exploded on impact and didn't even penetrate the animal. They had a bunch of yotes get away so they went back to the standard 223s and 22-250's.

Sounds similar to what I recall. I believe what @Garrett S is saying though. Logically i don't know any reason that a 39gr .204 diameter bullet of the right construction shouldn't be plenty for a coyote at .204 speeds if a 55ish grain .224 at 223 speeds works well. Maybe just more sensitive to bullet selection with those tiny pills.

 

[Catscratch]

Had to look up the .22ppc. Neat little round.

 

[Telemark]

the 223 for elk thread is one of the driving factors behind this idea. Realistically, I'm shooting a dozen groundhogs during the summer and having fun throwing lead. Truthfully, I reloaded for 243 this year and used that for my groundhogs as I had an adjustable turret on the scope and had a lot of fun with that. I could use that gun, but I'd like to build something that my kids can shoot.

a 17 would be a fun little gun for sure. I'm hesitant to go back to another 223 as I have one in an AR and one in a bolt gun. While I like them, I already have a couple. I like variety

Then I would look at 22-250 or 220 Swift.

 

[Foggy47]

Had to look up the .22ppc. Neat little round.

This was the darling round in the 80's and 90's. SAKO first introduced rifles in this caliber. Very accurate and found at all the bench rest competition. Efficient cartridge. I bought a new Ruger M77 Varmint / Target with laminated stock and a sweet trigger...in the early 90's that was chambered in the 22PPC from the factory (quite rare). These came in SS and with big name 28" barrels ( I think they were Kreiger match barrels)....or maybe it was Shilen?). Wears a 6x20 Luepold scope. Shoots like a house afire.

Ruger got in a lawsuit with the folks at PPC (round creators) and stopped producing the gun.....'cause they did not want to pay the royalty to PPC.....who were some benchrest shooters....whom developed the round from the 22 Russian parent case (Palmer Palimasono?). I think I 'm gonna put it on Gun Broker with match dies and a few hundred loaded rounds. I have not shot this gun in a decade....time to clean out some stuff. Same for my Browning 1885 falling block high wall....beutiful gun that I dont shoot anymore.

You can't take em with you. Grin.