I think a lot of western states, and maybe even some midwest states, have found a work around for the small landowner harvesting game at an exceedingly high rate per acre - and that is the landowner permit - where additional tags are available based upon the acres you own or control. Doubt we will ever see the eastern half of the country go to that scenario with the mostly smaller acreage landowners.
A story of frustration, and a less than awesome solution
- Thread starter roymunson
- Start date
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Some of you guys that live right near / next to your hunting ground are lucky. If I lived that close to my camp .............. I probably wouldn't be IN my home much. I'd be worn down to a frazzle from planting things, fertilizing things, placing tree stands, cutting shooting lanes, pruning fruit trees, building some owl nesting boxes, fishing, hinging some trees, putting out game cams, cutting firewood, and LOTS of hunting. My wife would have to come LOOKING for me !!!! 
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
It is a blessing and a curse. Sometimes to easy to either push it and hunt when you shouldnt ( which is why i dont run cameras anymore, to easy to check them EVERY day lol. No self restraint) and even easier to say f it when you should hunt.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
My wife just says "no more money" when she wants me in the house! LolSome of you guys that live right near / next to your hunting ground are lucky. If I lived that close to my camp .............. I probably wouldn't be IN my home much. I'd be worn down to a frazzle from planting things, fertilizing things, placing tree stands, cutting shooting lanes, pruning fruit trees, building some owl nesting boxes, fishing, hinging some trees, putting out game cams, cutting firewood, and LOTS of hunting. My wife would have to come LOOKING for me !!!!
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
I learned my lesson this fall at my house...i was checking my camera above my plot everyday and kept seeing less and less deer and almost no bucks...then i started letting them soak for 3-5 days at a time and only checking them with rain in the near future and boom i had far more sightings and more bucks too! i will probably go back to checking it daily once the season ends though (just too much fun to see whats around)
I'd strongly encourage you to get a cell cam if you need to see daily pics.
Derek Reese 29
5 year old buck +
there is no need there...just a bad case of wanting to know what's going on....still trying to find the right cell cam to break into that new phase of obsession....
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I'm lucky on that front. My wife has NEVER given me any grief on outdoor activities - she's a BIG fan of everything outdoors, plus she'd rather have me outdoors than hanging in a bar or some other "sinister" endeavors!! I met her when she was cooking 2 venison roasts at a private party years ago ......... a good start, I thought !!!!!!!!!!!
I live on my property. My wife’s idea for our anniversary five years ago was to upgrade my 28 hp 790 JD. We went together to the JD dealership and picked out a 65 hp fwd. i asked the dealer what they would give me on my little jd 790 and my wife said “you arent trading the little tractor - I’ll pay the difference”.
Here is the way I've taken control of my property which is 1350 acres. My farm adjoins my lifelong friends farm which is 1150 acres ; Both of us sharing similar passions. I've told this before and my only regret is I didn't act sooner.
I'm 67 and I've lived on my farm for 44 years. I've been on the property since I was 6 yrs old. In the beginning there were no deer. Poaching was year round rampant. I cant remember when I saw the first deer but I suspect it wasn't until I was in my 20's. I was given full management control when I was 18. To gain control of poaching I cleared a 400' perimeter around the property. I hired a sheriff to patrol on horseback in full uniform. A redneck poacher idiot shot a 30-06 from 30 yds at the front feet of his horse. By the time we finished with all legal proceedings it became clear poaching wouldn't be tolerated.
I built a road system throughout the farm, put 10% in food plots and designed the entire property for deer/deer hunting even though hardly ever saw a deer.I brought in the top biologist in the nation and implemented every habitat and herd strategy known to man. Over time though the herd built. My neighbor and I got better and better at year round plots. About 25 years ago we started supplementing with protein pellets. I ultimately placed a feeder per 60 acres. Nonetheless while the herd grew we couldn't grow a 170" buck. In fact over 30+ years we harvested one 170" buck. Discouraging and frustrating. Especially since I have been privileged to see some of the finest deer country in the nation and wanted badly to create it on my own property.
So about 9 yrs ago? { I'm terrible with time} we both had enough. Every perimeter property around us shot every deer that left our property. So we began construction of a game fence around our total property. Did it ourself taking a couple years. Then a remarkable thing happened. Three years later...about the time the 3 yr olds became 6 and 7.....we took a 227 and a 220. Wow. Now its getting fun. Today we have a deer herd that more appropriately reflects an unmolested deer herd. Buck doe ratio is about 1/1. Age structure is terrific with more bucks 4 and older that 1-3 and a fair amount of bucks die of old age. Population is in line with habitat. We get to see all the cool annual deer behaviors of a healthy herd. While the hunting is as challenging as ever its a lot more fun knowing there is a chance at seeing a fully mature 6 yr old or older bruiser.
Learned several interesting lessons. Deer move a lot more than people think. Explains why so few ever see mature deer. Genetics are not fixed and in fact with high levels of nutrition you can positively improve genetic expression. Natural mortality is higher than most understand with bucks especially 3 and 4 yr olds killing each other. The primary benefit of a game fence is the " opportunity" to allow bucks to age yet in the right circumstances doesn't diminish the quality of the hunting in the least. Today I own high fenced properties, low fenced properties and properties such as my farm that have been managed both ways over material periods of time. Happy to speak from experience on that subject with anyone but for sure on my farm my only regret is I didn't build the fence sooner.
I'm 67 and I've lived on my farm for 44 years. I've been on the property since I was 6 yrs old. In the beginning there were no deer. Poaching was year round rampant. I cant remember when I saw the first deer but I suspect it wasn't until I was in my 20's. I was given full management control when I was 18. To gain control of poaching I cleared a 400' perimeter around the property. I hired a sheriff to patrol on horseback in full uniform. A redneck poacher idiot shot a 30-06 from 30 yds at the front feet of his horse. By the time we finished with all legal proceedings it became clear poaching wouldn't be tolerated.
I built a road system throughout the farm, put 10% in food plots and designed the entire property for deer/deer hunting even though hardly ever saw a deer.I brought in the top biologist in the nation and implemented every habitat and herd strategy known to man. Over time though the herd built. My neighbor and I got better and better at year round plots. About 25 years ago we started supplementing with protein pellets. I ultimately placed a feeder per 60 acres. Nonetheless while the herd grew we couldn't grow a 170" buck. In fact over 30+ years we harvested one 170" buck. Discouraging and frustrating. Especially since I have been privileged to see some of the finest deer country in the nation and wanted badly to create it on my own property.
So about 9 yrs ago? { I'm terrible with time} we both had enough. Every perimeter property around us shot every deer that left our property. So we began construction of a game fence around our total property. Did it ourself taking a couple years. Then a remarkable thing happened. Three years later...about the time the 3 yr olds became 6 and 7.....we took a 227 and a 220. Wow. Now its getting fun. Today we have a deer herd that more appropriately reflects an unmolested deer herd. Buck doe ratio is about 1/1. Age structure is terrific with more bucks 4 and older that 1-3 and a fair amount of bucks die of old age. Population is in line with habitat. We get to see all the cool annual deer behaviors of a healthy herd. While the hunting is as challenging as ever its a lot more fun knowing there is a chance at seeing a fully mature 6 yr old or older bruiser.
Learned several interesting lessons. Deer move a lot more than people think. Explains why so few ever see mature deer. Genetics are not fixed and in fact with high levels of nutrition you can positively improve genetic expression. Natural mortality is higher than most understand with bucks especially 3 and 4 yr olds killing each other. The primary benefit of a game fence is the " opportunity" to allow bucks to age yet in the right circumstances doesn't diminish the quality of the hunting in the least. Today I own high fenced properties, low fenced properties and properties such as my farm that have been managed both ways over material periods of time. Happy to speak from experience on that subject with anyone but for sure on my farm my only regret is I didn't build the fence sooner.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I understand your perspective and morally disagree with it but I validate your desires and intentions. We can argue the merits of what a fence does or does not do all day long but we won’t agree and that is totally fine. I look at fencing and feeding as animal husbandry and frankly I prefer my wildlife…wild. Your hunting is way better than mine and you are enjoying it so that is great.
Obviously you control way more land than 99% of the population so maybe it is easier to justify the decision for a fence but at what point does it become too small? Is 100 acres too small? 500? Is there a magic number or is it all the same?
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While I would prefer you to chose different words that 'morally' or 'ethical' you seem to gravitate to that judgement . So be it. I'm always willing to discuss pragmatically what game fences do and don't do as I have a lot of personal experience with both. Not important to me to convince anyone of anything. Just share experience. You do ask a good question which I don't know the answer to and that is what acreage is to small to fence? While it is a function of cover, terrain habitat etc there is a point where the wildness of deer is lost. What I know as a fact is on our property in La. the deer are as wild and hard to hunt as anywhere in the state of La. I own 15,000 acres low fenced in Mexico ad those deer are far more mellow than the farm. No comparison. I was privileged to tool around the famous King Ranch for a few years. Could kill a deer with a hammer. Wildness is a relative thing and most deer herds in North America have been so perverted by man that they in no way resemble their preferred behavior.
Bill Loser
5 year old buck +
2500 is a little more than 4 square miles if my math is correct?
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
If money wasn't an issue, I'd high fence a line or 2 along fence sitters. Not sure where that sets me on the moral spectrum. Cost of high fence probably eliminates 90% of landowners. 8% more probably don't agree with it. Leaves a small group. I'm just fascinated by Baker's drive/experience/past/start/money whatever ya wanna call it. I'm not nosey and am not asking nor will I, but I think he's sitting prettier (probably by his own doing) than most of us! Cheers
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
You think only 8% wouldn’t agree with it? I would but a zero on the end of that in my experience
I hired a super bright 33 yr old originally from Salt Lake. He's worked on numerous farms around the country including several well known names in Regenerative farming and grazing. He's studied under Allen Savory , Elaine Ingraham, Dr Allen Wiliams and Greg Judy just to drop a few names. He has run regenerative grazing operations with experience including cows, goats, sheep , layers, pigs and, organic market gardening . I'm not giving a name cause you cant have him:) I am having a blast working with him and diving deep into this new enterprise. And BTW...will grow even bigger deer because of regenerative practices......but I've been drinking wine.....
Booner21
5 year old buck +
Get a CuddeLink system can check every camera from the house 6x a day without a cell plan if you want
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Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Honestly I kinda thought the 90+8 to equal 98, but that since 90 can't even consider it, it's a non issue. If most guys can't afford something, they're probably against it regardless of reasons. I can't afford a lamborghini, and I can say I'm against my kids buying one as well. Doesn't make it right or wrong. But it wouldn't be a financially wise decision. Baker has now taken his fence and introduced kiko goats and possibly a cattle herd. Does that change anything for the antis? He's running a business and paying taxes (hopefully) and I don't think he cares what people think about his hunting endeavors.
