Which apple trees to plant?

[yoderjac]

As I have already indicated, apples are much harder here but not impossible. It takes some work and commitment, but without doing any spraying I have several trees that produce very well - and plenty good enough for providing deer food. They are also extremely healthy trees.

I think it comes down to how much you want it and how committed you are to it. For me, I want it badly enough that I'm willing to put in some effort to have it. If you plan on just going out and planting an apple tree and coming back in 5 years to see how its doing - then, yes, I agree with the KDOF. In that case, you will have wasted your money.

But with that said, you are going to have to do some work, even if you plant hazelnuts and persimmons. Hazelnuts do extremely well with limited sunlight, but they won't survive in a closed canopy forest. So plant hazelnuts and don't clean out around them in KY, and eventually they are shaded out. That's why the most common place I find them growing is in fence rows and the southern edges of the woods. Also, in some places the deer will just walk up and eat your bushes - so caging is a must.

Even if you set persimmon seedlings, you will need to keep the competition cleared back to some extent. They are very tough and can be nearly as tall as some of the typical climax forest trees in KY. However, I can't imagine them doing very well, and would expect very few to survive without some human intervention.

Bottom Line - There is no sure fire deer food tree without human intervention in this state. The mighty oak is the closest thing to it, because it is one of the largest and toughest climax forest trees. But plant a mighty oak where the cottonwoods or sycamores already have a head start on it (and walk away and do nothing), and it is doomed for failure too.

I do this because I love it. And when you love something, you won't accept failure as an option.

PS: Those guys at the KDOF know very little about apple trees. It isn't their area of expertise. They probably think every apple is something like a Honeycrisp or Gala that they have tried to grow at home and failed with. Trees like those are from the "Bowels of Apple Hell" in this state. Just starting with the right cultivars puts you way ahead of the game.

Best Wishes

Very good points. Persimmons are fairly early succession trees. They pop up like crazy around here when we clear-cut but you are right. Eventually taller canopy trees will shaded them out. However, I find trees in the a couple inches in diameter are pretty easy to release. Eventually you need to release them again, but that is a far cry from the pruning, spraying, fertilizing, and such that many apple trees require.

My goal with apples is the trees you describe. I'm focusing on disease resistant varieties. I may do a little early maintenance on them to give them a head start, but I want to plant enough volume that I know I won't be able to keep up with maintenance.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[mikmaze]

I am crossing fingers that the info I got was correct and the local garden center is going to 75% off tomorrow, they have about 45 apple trees, 20 plumb, pear, persimmon pecan hazlenut..... apples are at or above 3/4 inch caliber and lots of variety.. will end up 70 bux for four trees. these are the ones I go after, the trees that lived an entire summer in a pot. they will not die and expect 90% survivability. a quick prune, a bit of fence, and 2 falls from now fruit

I use the following polination chart, and their extensive description.s https://www.orangepippintrees.com/pollinationchecker.aspx

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Check out century farms. They have several of the varieties NH mentioned along with many other that will grow well in your area.
On my heavy clay soils Arkansas Black an Liberty have shined among other varieties. The 2 redfree I planted have really impressed me as well!

 

[Native Hunter]

Check out century farms. They have several of the varieties NH mentioned along with many other that will grow well in your area.
On my heavy clay soils Arkansas Black an Liberty have shined among other varieties. The 2 redfree I planted have really impressed me as well!

I just looked at their web site the other night and have a list of trees I'm going to order from them. I'm going to try a Mattamuskeet next time. Can't find much info on it other than it being extremely late ripening, but willing to take a chance on one just for the experience.

 

[chickenlittle]

I think Native is right about the Foresters and apple trees. Maybe talk to the county ag extension and find some local master gardeners that are into apples and grafting. But even with them, you need to let them know what you want and don't want. What apple varieties would they recommend for someone that isn't going to spend a lot of time on spraying and care.

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/agcomm/pubs/ho/ho104/ho104.pdf
http://www.uky.edu/hort/document-list-home-fruit

I look forward to when my persimmons start dropping fruit but that is years away. My apple and pear trees are producing faster and will be dropping loads of fruit long before I kill a deer eating persimmons.

 

[DLH]

I would do as native says listening to him will do you more good than the KDOF, county ag extension or local master Gardner. He knows exactly what you are asking because he’s done it in your state boots on the ground. The other resources may think you want to do an extensive spray program which misses the point for wildlife and lead you down the wrong road. I would pick 3-5 apples and 3-5 pears he mentioned and plant and cage them to get an idea how much work you are willing to put in also try and find persimmons that can be top worked. You don’t have to get this all done in one year a few apples and pears can be added each year.

 

[EarthySpirit]

I would do as native says listening to him will do you more good than the KDOF, county ag extension or local master Gardner. He knows exactly what you are asking because he’s done it in your state boots on the ground. The other resources may think you want to do an extensive spray program which misses the point for wildlife and lead you down the wrong road. I would pick 3-5 apples and 3-5 pears he mentioned and plant and cage them to get an idea how much work you are willing to put in also try and find persimmons that can be top worked. You don’t have to get this all done in one year a few apples and pears can be added each year.

Awesome! Thanks

 

[Native Hunter]

There were two more apples I forgot to mention that I can recommend in KY. Those are Black Oxford and Horse.

There are some more that I'm still evaluating and should have a better feel for in a year or two. Some of those have done okay for one or two seasons, but I need to see how they do in a severe fireblight year before I will recommend them. I also have some that haven't been in the ground long enough for any data such as Franklin Cider and some of the trees from Northern Whitetail Crabs. Reports on those will be coming as time goes on.

 

[mikmaze]

I ended up grabbing 3 wolf river, 3 golden delicious, 1 liberty, and 1 red fuji today from garden center. all from 8 to 10 feet tall, all over an inch in caliber fore 140 bux. I will be pruining them back, scions available. I might save a few for top work on old trees / crabs.

 

[H20fwler]

The right kind of crab apples and pears can get by with about zero maintenance except screening and caging when first planted.
I'm a big fan of American hazelnuts they have to be one of the easiest trees/shrubs to grow and are no maintenance for me except spraying for jap beetles if its a bad summer for them. American hazelnuts will grow just about anywhere and in my area the deer don't seem to browse them much at all I haven't protected any of mine, probably have over seventy planted.

 

[Native Hunter]

I have a Wolf River that has been growing for 2 years. Right after I planted it was when horror stories started coming out from 3 different people on the forums about how they had severe fireblight problems with it.

Now I'm considering going ahead and topworking my tree next spring. I hate to do it, because the tree is growing great and very healthy looking. However, with fireblight you won't see anything wrong until the tree starts flowering. Even then, it may not be a bad year for fireblight and everything may still seem okay for a year or two. But with what I've heard, I think that in my area I'm just asking for problems if I just let the tree grow. FB can be horrible around here and any tree that doesn't have strong resistance is probably doomed.

 

[weekender21]

Hearing all the feedback on here, and from the forestry department here in Kentucky, I am abandoning the Apple tree idea. I don't have the time, or money to maintain apple trees. I've about decided to go with persimmons and hazelnuts, because I hear they are much easier to to grow and maintain. This is what locals and the forestry people say, at least. What do you all think?

Check out Northern Whitetail Crabs. They sell trees specifically for wildlife that are tough against disease, cold and don't have to be babied. I planted 24 of their trees in May and all of them leafed out, one even grew an apple.

 

[sandbur]

Hearing all the feedback on here, and from the forestry department here in Kentucky, I am abandoning the Apple tree idea. I don't have the time, or money to maintain apple trees. I've about decided to go with persimmons and hazelnuts, because I hear they are much easier to to grow and maintain. This is what locals and the forestry people say, at least. What do you all think?

Check out Northern Whitetail Crabs. They sell trees specifically for wildlife that are tough against disease, cold and don't have to be babied. I planted 24 of their trees in May and all of them leafed out, one even grew an apple.

What USDA zones are they hardy for?


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[Native Hunter]

I have planted 10 of the Northern Whitetail Crabs (5 last spring and 5 this spring) and they are looking great. However, until I see them grow and perform as advertised on my ground through at least 2 or 3 seasons of fruiting, I'm not going to recommend them as "good to go." I obviously believe the advertising or I wouldn't have taken a chance - but "belief" and "proof" are two different things.

As mentioned earlier, you can think you are in "Apple Heaven" until a good case of fireblight hits - then you find out you are actually in "Apple Hell." Also, CAR can be worse in some years than others. Even though CAR may not be quite as devastating as FB, it can cause serious long term problems and the absence of fruit on some cultivars (see my picture above of Gold Rush).

When I recommend something for my area, I have seen it perform in my area to what I deem to be an acceptable standard.

There are some apples I grow that I consider borderline here. Brushy Mountain Limbertwig is an example. Right now the Brushy in my yard is hanging full of apples and had no problems this year. In fact, I had one big limb to break from apple overload. However, I am not ready to recommend that apple. I saw just enough FB a couple of years ago to give me concern about the long term viability.

There are areas of the country that are very forgiving when it comes to growing apples. There are other areas of the country where you had better be ready for a constant battle and eventual defeat - unless you grow the right apples. I'm personally willing to do some experimenting myself and take some failures in the name of science - hence, my trial of the NWCs. But, I have learned that if the Purdue website on apple diseases shows a particular cultivar as susceptible to either CAR or FB, you can forget even thinking of planting that one around here - you are dead in the water before the spade hits the ground.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

I just looked at their web site the other night and have a list of trees I'm going to order from them. I'm going to try a Mattamuskeet next time. Can't find much info on it other than it being extremely late ripening, but willing to take a chance on one just for the experience.

Dont recall that variety! Dont hesitate to call or email David at Century farms. He was super good to deal with and responds quickly. You can tell the guy is passionate about apples!

 

[H20fwler]

Check out Northern Whitetail Crabs. They sell trees specifically for wildlife that are tough against disease, cold and don't have to be babied. I planted 24 of their trees in May and all of them leafed out, one even grew an apple.

I'll second that.
I first planted them maybe four springs ago, I went with a pair each of all of their crabs and a couple of the regular apples and all have grown very well. Have added a few more crabs every spring and put eight more of the NWC in this past April. My original Droptines were the first to produce and have held their apples late into January, so far just the Droptines and 30-06 have made apples on the originals. Half of them planted this spring tried to make apples but I pinched them off, they were just 3' whips when I first planted them and every one of them has grown taller than the remesh cages their first summer and have branched out nice...they were all planted in full sun out in the open and were not babied.

 

[weekender21]

What USDA zones are they hardy for?


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Great question. They are grown in PA and I'm in NC so haven't been too overly concerned about the cold hardiness. They're a pretty small operation but will respond to your questions via email or phone quickly. Their customer service is excellent.

 

[weekender21]

I'll second that.
I first planted them maybe four springs ago, I went with a pair each of all of their crabs and a couple of the regular apples and all have grown very well. Have added a few more crabs every spring and put eight more of the NWC in this past April. My original Droptines were the first to produce and have held their apples late into January, so far just the Droptines and 30-06 have made apples on the originals. Half of them planted this spring tried to make apples but I pinched them off, they were just 3' whips when I first planted them and every one of them has grown taller than the remesh cages their first summer and have branched out nice...they were all planted in full sun out in the open and were not babied.

I planted my trees the first week of May 2018 as whips and pinched an apple off one of my 30-06 crabs the first week in July. It had leafed out, grown significantly, and produced an apple in 2 months. We received an incredible amount of rain this year and even though our property is in the mountains it does get warm (above 80F) in the summer. Still, I was surprised at the rapid growth.

For the record, these 24 apples and crab apples are the first I've ever planted. I won't pretend to give expert advice, just the facts from my experience.

 

[H20fwler]

I planted my trees the first week of May 2018 as whips and pinched an apple off one of my 30-06 crabs the first week in July. It had leafed out, grown significantly, and produced an apple in 2 months. We received an incredible amount of rain this year and even though our property is in the mountains it does get warm (above 80F) in the summer. Still, I was surprised at the rapid growth.

For the record, these 24 apples and crab apples are the first I've ever planted. I won't pretend to give expert advice, just the facts from my experience.

It was a very good year to plant here too, we had a little dry spell in early June of a few weeks then we had about an inch of rain every week all summer...it was perfect growing weather. The only threat we had to fruit trees this year was the jap beetles and they were as bad as I've ever seen them here.
The bulk of the NWC I've planted have been in a CRP strip along the south side of a woods and they have grown as good as any of the other fruit trees we put in there, the new ones this year were planted out in a pasture and really jumped for first year trees. I'm not sure if it was from the good rains or being out in the open or maybe both? Hopefully these crabs do as well as the website proclaims so far I've been pretty happy with them too, I'm looking forward to seeing how they progress.

 

[mikmaze]

I'll be planting 4 of the 8 I bought friday today, trying to make sue I get polinators for my big ark. black, I'll take a pic of it today as it is large, and growing well, but fruitless the last few years. I hope I recall it correctly as ark black. will be planting golden delicious, and wolf river as pollinators for it. Ark black being a triploid needs 2 pollinators. Might swing by the back of the local horse barn for some well composted manure to ad to the back fill..