What apple trees do you want, but don't have yet?

[sandbur]

Bur - this may sound dumb, but why would they not produce annually.....or do crabs just not work that way? Good crop every other year would be better than the 6 apples I get a year currently..... I also am not worried about eating the apples.....my apples are for the critters 100%. Only reason they are "people" apples was because I was lazy and too impatient and bought trees from a big box store (red & yellow delicious, McIntosh, Fuji and Gala I think)....dumb, dumb, dumb at least for my intended purpose.

I am not an apple expert, but I guess certain varieties have that tendency. Fromt his and other forums, I have learned that pruning/thinning may counteract that tendency. I complete loss of crop due to frost has lead to a good crop for me this year.

 

[sandbur]

Currently trying to get and plant Ambrosia and Swiss gourmet may be able to do both in a year or so , We grow all our apples on sand here in central Minnesota and really after a tree gets a few years on it seldom is drought big problem but we can and do irrigate when needed,, so we lime alot

What rootstocks are you using and how long do your trees live?

 

[wooduck]

What rootstocks are you using and how long do your trees live?

We are using mostly m26, bud9, g41 ,not as big a fan of bud 9 and may go back to more m26 planted tight and pruned to control size , on sand a good fertilizer program means everything soil test and use all the micros , our soils in the natural state run near 4.5 to 5.0 ph we have them limed to 6.8 or near that and calcium tests are off the charts , we test soils to 24inches and apply custom blended fertilizer yearly and dont push nitrogen too much growth , we like to see about 12 inches or so new growth yearly , if your new growth isn't near that or more you are lacking something

Oldest trees here are ten years and going strong going to be a big crop this year if we get past the hail storms our biggest problem with trees living are gopher damage and a constant problem - job they feed on a bud 9 with a smaller root system and that tree is history it may die a year later during winter ect but the sever root pruning from the gophers -stress is what causes us the most frustration

 

[sandbur]

wooduck gophers...ughh. Some are so lucky to not have them.

How long did it take to raise subsoil pH and did you top dress or till in the lime?

Did frost hit your blossoms hard last year?
Is Kindercrisp close to production?

 

[sandbur]

I dont want to get this thread too far off base here but that is way easier said than done Appleman. I'm not a commercial grower, I do understand the desired and recommended PH for apple trees to do best. My farm has been in our family over 100 years and it is what it is, and it is in the middle of sandy central wisconsin. I don't plan to move or buy a new farm, and I do plan to keep growing apples on our farm. Some people think i'm crazy for even trying, but the method I use has proven itself pretty effective in the last 8 years and it does work well.

Planting in a non-amended hole like this is doomed for failure. This sand just does not hold moisture, it's similar to what you find at a beach. If you are lucky you have 1-2" of darker sand on the top. A few bags of the anaerobically digested dairy cow manure at least helps the tree get established. Everywhere you read about black plastic being bad for apples, not in this part of the country, it helps retain moisture. Throw some watersorb in the planting hole too. Irrigation would be great but our area is pretty remote, no well. I did supplemental watering on 1 day in 2012 when I planted 25 trees and we had extreme drought.

I do go against what is recommended by the vast majority of growers, but then again, the vast majority has never been in this area of the country nor tried to grow things here.

I am happy with the results. B118 fibrous roots do best, but M111 does ok too. Here is a 6 year old Liberty on M111. I hand thinned this and many of my other trees, or at least tried to.

I have 5-6 year old trees pushing 15-20' tall and have up to 3" girth. I've seen trees stunted because of over fruiting at a young age but not because of the soil i amend the planting hole with.

I am most curious to see how growing in the sandy soil may or may not impact the flavor of these different varieties, compared to apples grown in ideal soil.

Maybe I missed it previously, but what is the natural soil pH?

 

[wooduck]

wooduck gophers...ughh. Some are so lucky to not have them.

How long did it take to raise subsoil pH and did you top dress or till in the lime?

Did frost hit your blossoms hard last year?
Is Kindercrisp close to production?

 

[wooduck]

wooduck gophers...ughh. Some are so lucky to not have them.

How long did it take to raise subsoil pH and did you top dress or till in the lime?

Did frost hit your blossoms hard last year?
Is Kindercrisp close to production?

We had frost damage last year on two thirds of the trees , KJindercrisp will bear this year we planted on bud9 and they have been in the ground two seasons and we will alow 5 to 6 fruits per tree ,, our first year with bearing First Kiss honeycrisp cross high quality crisp , sweet apple ready as early as 15 aug

On the lime when we started we tilled deep pre-plant and have been applying some almost annually but less now that we are higher ph ,Natural ph was 4.5 to 5

 

[wooduck]

The subject of soils comes up a lot , personally I have farmed heavy soil and light I will take light soil every day if I can get water out efficiently , heavy soil cannot be amended nutrients don't drop thru it when its wet it leads to root rots , cant till heavy soil don't fear the sands work with them its the easiest to manage once you understand them , In fact some of the most productive orchard soils in the world are sands , the most valuable apple growing region in Michigan is all sand

 

[rocksnstumps]

Wooduck
Have heard the same things about the sandy soils in central WI. They grow alot of veggies in spots and yep they need fertilizing but know how to fine tune and no problems with drainage or compacting soils. It really all works cause a huge underground reservoir is not far down and pivot irrigation. That helps make conditions fairly consistent year to year. Courtesy of glacial melt about 10,000 yrs ago.

 

[sandbur]

Wooduck
Have heard the same things about the sandy soils in central WI. They grow alot of veggies in spots and yep they need fertilizing but know how to fine tune and no problems with drainage or compacting soils. It really all works cause a huge underground reservoir is not far down and pivot irrigation. That helps make conditions fairly consistent year to year. Courtesy of glacial melt about 10,000 yrs ago.

That sounds like the potato ground that is just west of me. Edible beans are occasionally on the ground. Here it is called the Anoka Sand Plain that runs along the Mississippi for many miles.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Up to a bit over 100 varieties with many being single trees but I enjoy the diversity. I want to try Franklin since I have been planting and grafting cider varieties the last few years. Some of them are quite a challenge with disease and growth but I keep on mushing forward. A lot of my varieties have come from great guys on this forum. Keeping my fingers crossed this year and my biggest worry now is hail as we have been getting some bad storms. Had one tree blow over or climbed in by bear not so sure what it is yet. Need to check the cams