What to do with Apple Trees that dies back to the ground?

[Freeborn]

First, does anybody have a trusted website that will provide low temps for a location? The information I am getting from Minnesota’s DNR Climate site seems wrong. For example their website shows my area (zip 56361) had a low last winter of around -35 while the low this winter was -29. I did not think it got -29 this past year but I could be wrong.


I’m a little behind on following up on my apple trees so these trees died back because of the 2013-2014 winter. These trees came from Cummins and were planted spring 2013. The trees that died back are all rated for zone 4 and include Northern Spy, Yarlington Mills, Black Oxford, King David and Golden Russet. By the way both my Honey crisp and Liberty did well.

The trees that did die back grew back from the ground last year, did well over this winter and look good. My area had lows per the DNR website of around -35 last winters while this winter was around -29. In 2013 we had a very dry year while last year we had a very wet year could this or the lack of age/development cause some of the dieback or is it strictly temps?

At this point I can dig up the trees and replace with trees I know will make it or roll the dice and see how they do. What do you think?

Thanks much.

FB

 

[Freeborn]

If they died back below the graft union then you have your rootstock if that's living. If you have scions then you could graft them in the rootstock in the near future. When the leaves are half green stage. Or let it grow and bud graft in August. If there is any new growth above the rootstock then I'd let that grow. Any photos you can post?

Unfortunately I don't have any photos but I will be back up next weekend and can take a few photos. I do remember seeing both results you describe. I don't have any additional Scion at my fingertips, do I still have a couple weeks for my zone?

I could do the grafts but need to get scion ordered/found.

Funny, seems like I know these answers but I am so busy working on a dozen different things when I am at my place I don't think of them.

Thanks!

 

[Freeborn]

Good advice guys. I'm headed back this next weekend and will get some photos. Last years winter was tuff and probably not good timing for first year trees. Seems like with everything its two steps forward and one step back. Except for everygreens this year as i think I lost most of the 300 plugs I planted. Luckly I have another 300 ordered and I figure like the apple trees if I keep swinging i'll get some hits.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Since my trees are primarily for the deer, I let the fruit tree grow from the suckers if the main top dies. I had quite a few trees die in Rusk County WI this spring, but a bunch of nearby trees are doing fine. I noticed some SW injury for the first time, so I'll probably have to apply interior latex paint to the trees up there next year. All of my pears, cherries and grafted plums are dead, so from now on I'll be sticking with apples and crabapples up there. I know SLN used to sell seedling apple trees that were supposed to be very winter hardy, so I wonder if going with apple or crabapple seedlings might be a better choice in winter-kill prone areas? If someone sold a sure fire, won't die in the winter apple tree, I'd sure pick up a bunch of them just to have some extremely hardy trees that would compliment the more exotic varieties with specific drop times and flavors.

 

[sandbur]

Jerry-I have got some decent deer apples from rootstock. I would also suggest leaving them in the ground.

Last fall, Lee and I attended a meeting in Staples where they discussed winter kill from the previous winter. I lost a black ice plum that was rated for zone 4. I an beginning to think it is best to stick with zone 3 trees.

I have an old list of what Bailey's supplied a few years ago and it lists zone hardiness. I also have a copy of 3 different ratings on winter hardiness from the 95-96 winter at the Grand Rapids Mn. Experimental station. Also some notes form the Staples meeting.

There are some other links to the Canadian prairie apples and even some things on Alaskan apples.

I will gladly share this information with you.

Does zone 4 hardy mean hardy throughout the whole zone? Is it based on the average winter? Should we be looking at the 30 year maps instead of the 15 year maps?

Or just plant things one zone colder for safety sake if we are planting for deer?

 

[Jim Timber]

I'm with ya Art! Zone 3 or colder - just to play it safe. We have enough odd weather at a reasonable frequency that I'd rather stick to plants which think they're in the tropics most of the time instead of struggling to make it through a bad spell.

 

[sandbur]

It gets pretty tough to plant one zone colder items if you're in zone 3....not many fruit or nut producing trees for zone 2. The other issue with zone ratings is that they vary from source to source. Who do you believe?

I also see that variation. Could the rootstock be the cause of some of it? Salesmanship can also be a part.

Is zone 3 at the edge of the prairie the same as zone 3 in the northeast? More winds, and less moisture on the prairie.... even if winter temps get to the same lows.

 

[bowhunternw]

Zone ratings are helpful...but are far from an end-all be all IMHO. Soil type (sand vs. clay or in between), soil moisture, and when the bitter cold sets in (-25 in early December vs. -25 in mid January) are far more important IMHO

Are you thinking that heavier soils are better for winter survival or sand?

 

[Freeborn]

Heavier soils are better because they hold moisture longer.

Rootstock is absolutely part of a tree's winter hardiness, but I've seen trees on the same rootstock listed as zone 4 and zone 5. Also seen it happen with zone 3 and zone 4.

I use zone ratings as a guideline, but they're not "definitive" IMHO

Yep, sandy soil and dry conditions out here in the wind swept prairie. Natives have the best opportunity to make it. To give you some perspective the dominate tree on my place is the Bur Oak. It takes a tuff tree to make it here which is why I am having so many problems getting evergreens to survive.

Based on what I am seeing its tuff to get more than a year maybe a year in a half before the law of averages takes over and either severe winter or dry conditions dominate a season.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Check out this site if you don't already know about it. hardyfruittrees.ca. It's a Canadian nursery an hour north of Montreal w/ apple trees for into zone 2. They have a table w/ pix of very hardy strains of apples. At least it gives an idea of some good choices - FWIW.

 

[wiscwhip]

For those of you struggling with the conifers and you think it is excessive wind, lack of moisture, overly bitter temps, or any combination of the above, I would suggest Black Hills Spruce. They are slow growing, but slow is better than dead or non-existent. I don't care where you are, the temperature extremes, consistent high winds, and lack of consistent precipitation most likely do not rival that which they observe in the Black Hills region. If those trees survive there, they will likely survive for many of you as well. You just might have to wait 20 years to get a 12' tree?

 

[Freeborn]

I'm planting strictly Black hill spruce but I still lost allot of them last year. Last year we had great rain and maybe they put on to much top growth and then this winter no cover and very dry. One extreme after the other takes its toll.

 

[wiscwhip]

At least you have the right "man" for the job, even though it may not always play out the way you intend. Of any of the conifers you could plant, they will be the most likely to survive in those extreme conditions. I do agree that extreme after extreme will do them in, like anything, they have to catch a break sometime so they can establish themselves.

 

[NY_Terrence]

I have had good success planting Black Hills Spruce in Western NY. They have only been in the ground a few years, but doing well. 'cept when the deer have rubbed then.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I was doing some research - reading and talking to nurserymen - on Black Hills Spruce. I might try a few of those at camp next year. Too many things to accomplish THIS year besides the stuff ( planned ) at camp. But they sound like a winner - tough & adaptable.

 

[Freeborn]

I planted 200 B.H. spruce last year...every single one that I've checked on is alive. They are s....l.....o.....w.... to grow, but I suppose that beats having to replant them every darn year. I think next year I may order a bunch of larger BHS plugs. I'm very impressed with the height of the Styro 20 Norway spruce I picked up today....may order 500 BHS in that size next year.

What kind of tool would you need to plant Styro 20? Is this something you could build yourself?