Very interesting conversationwith a biologist

[dipper]

Spent some time chatting with an off duty wi dnr deer biologist at a social event. He isn't my local biologist. Couple key points
-Staff is odored not to speak freely with the public, if they speak up they can be fired.
-wi dnr is extremely concerned with Cwd, actually they are deathly afraid.
-deer are completely gone from the landscape in the original Cwd zone out west. Apparently there is elk there, which are more tolerant of Cwd.
-Cwd is growing in southern wi. The infection rates are drastically high on mature bucks, I think he said 30% plus and does are 10%.
-Cwd infection rates decreased in Illinois, due to drastic herd reduction.
-wi isn't reducing its herd for politicial reasons, so infection will only increase.
-deer farms are the cause of rapid national spread
-decreasing the bucks helps slow spread, and mature bucks are the worst carriers.
That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure more will come to me. I Have had this feeling before. I'm sure states like mn are fully aware of the wi dnrs understanding of Cwd. Wi dnr isn't going to officially come out and say these things for a variety of reasons. I'm sure the mn dnr won't either. I Have a hunch there is more to the story about your deer population reduction in mn. You just not getting a full explanation. The mn dnr isn't stupid, I'd guess they are looking to the future and they are banking on your low deer density to weather the Cwd storm.
This guy seemed level headed, intelligent, and reasonable. He wasn't complaining, and didn't seem to hate the world.
I can see these views as sadly reasonable and totally possible. We might have seen the best of what deer hunting has ever been. Scarey

 

[sandbur]

dipper, recently we had this discussion I another thread. I suspect CWD may be a big part of why we have low deer numbers.

I have to add that my perceptions of deer interactions are different than many others in areas with more deer. Others report deer licking and socializing with each other. Around my place we are lucky to even see 3 deer in a field at a time- a doe and her fawns.

 

[wiscwhip]

As I said in the previous post that sandbur referenced, this could go all the way up the ladder to the CDC. They wouldn't say a word publicly if did come all the way down from the top for the fear that panic would ensue. If this thing went mad cow, it would be much harder to control given that at least some of the carriers are wild animals and are not in a controlled herd. There aren't a lot of wild bovines in this country other than bison, and they didn't/don't appear to be affected by the cervid form of spongiform encephalopathy, so the CDC/USDA can keep tabs on the cows. Not so with deer.

 

[bueller]

I pulled this from the IL DNR website. "The Department of Natural Resources also continues to implement its sharpshooting program to acquire additional samples for surveillance testing and monitoring, remove as many sick individuals as possible, and reduce the herd within known CWD locations in an effort to prevent further spread of the disease. Through these efforts, we have maintained our CWD prevalence at 1-2% over the infected area, and are confident that we have reduced the rate of spread of the disease to new areas."

 

[j-bird]

I know in my area with low deer densities when IN was hit with EHD (I know it's different than CWD) I wasn't as nearly as affected as many of parts of my state. IN has continued to "expand opportunities" by implementing crossbows, handgun cartridge rifles, a special late antlerless season and considering adding high power rifles next year - yet they claim they are no longer trying to reduce the herd size - We had decent EHD outbreaks in the recent past as well as record harvests, and we continue to increase seasons and weapon choices - but again they are NOT trying to keep numbers low or even drive them lower.

What kills me is guys that are in favor of increasing the "opportunities" are typically the same ones that are pissed about the deer numbers being down - go figure.

 

[Four Seasons]

Lots of holes in that story really. Of course they will blame it on farms even though a deer has never died from CWD on a farm. One brings in Ill as an example. Hundreds of cases in the wild and never a case behind fence? Funny if you talk to the boyz over on the QDMA site that live and practice QDM in the hottest red zone of Wisconsin with CWD, they say they now have to kill more deer off their properties ever since CWD came to town. Ny and Michigan both had cases over 10 years ago and has CWD living on their borders yet no cases in those 10 years. Even with farm deer movement and wild buck dispersal.
At least some of you are aware and agree that these Govt paid people will tell you whatever they need to to fill their agenda. The part i like the best..and is about to be spread all through the courts.. is that some of you guys..Sportsmen.. do not question your own states actions. I mean please tell me how these states that are bringing in Elk to your state from untested areas are testing these Elk? If you get on Missouri DNR website they say...They have a test for THEIR elk that come in that is 80 something percent correct when it comes to CWD and has been around since like 2008. Now go a paragraph down and read where that state says they have to close their borders to all farm raised Elk and Whitetails because there is no live test for CWD and they want to protect their sportsmen. Now really guys! Please explain that with an open mind and open eyes? Not sure if anyone on here is from Iowa but that state just lost their battle against the Brakke farm for them shutting them and their land down.
You mark my words, this state and court case is just the beginning of the truths of CWD being shown across the country and 2015 will be an explosion in many states. There is a live test that we have footed alot of the bill on being used with great success on farms in Canada and when that becomes open for Us farms the truths will be shown even more.
No deer farmer or sportsmen wants CWD anywhere in the country but one has to ask if the Govt feels the same. There were scientist from Canada and Us that went to that Iowa farm and pulled Blood, Flesh, Fluids, Soil Samples and Wood Samples from the animals and farm and as of today Patty Kline leader of research for CWD has stopped all research on all of that material. If you research her name you will see where her last job was when it comes to animals. Talk about a fox in the hen house. Way to many things being hid by the Govt and court cases have started to bring them to a head.

 

[Freeborn]

Four Seasons, What are you insinuating? That our state governments are using CWD as an excuse to greatly lower both the wild and farmed deer herd? That would not surprise me.

Sounds like US deer farmers are going to be suing states so they can continue operations.

If it brings some clarity and truth to wild deer management I am all for it.

 

[dipper]

So bio dude has sworn to secrecy yet his comments r on the net already? A state employee getting fired? Lol a) ban baiting b) ban your relatives high fences ? Yep the dnr is losing sleep over this

No they are horrified deer won't exist. They aren't publicly saying you better eliminate the herd or else. All courtesy of wi deer savior Scott walker. He saved wi from earn a buck, swept Cwd under the rug, wi deer hunting has never been better. Hear stories about Cwd in southern wi. They are only stories, cause I don't spend time there. Only time will tell.
Yup, wilderness whitetails, it's only capitalism everyone admires. I can tell you I didn't get rich off it, but they sure as hell did. Playing God for the pleasure of the rich, there is nothing wrong with that. Stan hall first brought it to central wi, and it's popping up outside the fence now in almond. I think 3 deer last year in portage county, wonder what this year's numbers will bring.

 

[dipper]

I know in my area with low deer densities when IN was hit with EHD (I know it's different than CWD) I wasn't as nearly as affected as many of parts of my state. IN has continued to "expand opportunities" by implementing crossbows, handgun cartridge rifles, a special late antlerless season and considering adding high power rifles next year - yet they claim they are no longer trying to reduce the herd size - We had decent EHD outbreaks in the recent past as well as record harvests, and we continue to increase seasons and weapon choices - but again they are NOT trying to keep numbers low or even drive them lower.

What kills me is guys that are in favor of increasing the "opportunities" are typically the same ones that are pissed about the deer numbers being down - go figure.

Sounds like the same bitch from Indiana as mn. Wonder why the pretty much a dnrs are making such an effort to drastically reduce the deer numbers. They are doing it everywhere. Guys in Iowa butch the numbers are shrinking. Ask yourself why?
There are peple that made up their minds. I'm not one of them. You will never find the real truth in anything thinking like that.
Interesting isn't about the elk, a push for reintroduction, and their possible tolerance of Cwd?

 

[Jeff23]

-deer are completely gone from the landscape in the original Cwd zone out west. Apparently there is elk there, which are more tolerant of Cwd.

I think he is just toeing the party line on some of this stuff. The above statement- to whatever degree it is true regarding populations- is questionable at best. Mule deer population decline is being blamed on numerous other factors before CWD deaths, but even so, the deer are certainly not "completely gone from the landscape." Also, in what way are elk "more tolerant of CWD"?

 

[Four Seasons]

No they are horrified deer won't exist. They aren't publicly saying you better eliminate the herd or else. All courtesy of wi deer savior Scott walker. He saved wi from earn a buck, swept Cwd under the rug, wi deer hunting has never been better. Hear stories about Cwd in southern wi. They are only stories, cause I don't spend time there. Only time will tell.
Yup, wilderness whitetails, it's only capitalism everyone admires. I can tell you I didn't get rich off it, but they sure as hell did. Playing God for the pleasure of the rich, there is nothing wrong with that. Stan hall first brought it to central wi, and it's popping up outside the fence now in almond. I think 3 deer last year in portage county, wonder what this year's numbers will bring.

Think about that for a second, 3 animals out of how many animals im that county/area? I agree that 1 is to many but talking numbers 3 deer dead from something that does not wipe out masses of animals, does not hurt humans and in the end...Did not die from CWD but a bullet or bumper. You speak of Wilderness Whitetails. They were the kings of the deer business and did not need to bring animals into their farm and they didn't. They were a closed herd for like 10 years.
Now you do realize that CWD prion has been found in corn and alfalfa correct? Now do you think its right that some farmer is harvesting high moisture corn say in Wisconsin,in a CWD hot zone,selling it to a big feed company and i end up with a bag of CWD infected corn from my feed dealer way up here in Ny and now i just infected my deer with CWD just trying to feed them?

I can show you a handful of pictures of dead. hunter harvested Elk coming out of Colorado and crossing borders all the way to Ohio. Whole animals to be brought into another state to be rendered and the scraps thrown who knows where! The states are not worried about hay,grains,dead animals coming and going from states but they sure do have a problem with a live deer coming off a deer farm that has been tested for CWD for over 10 years coming into their states.

You do know this Patty Klein that is the head of CWD research for the USDA, She was a leader of an animal rights group before she started with USDA and had vowed long before her USDA job to rid the world of high fence. I would go as far to say that if it was possible and someone shut the whole deer business down with a stroke of a pen you would see CWD spoke of in a way different light and would drop in the news as fast as Ebola did.....

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Think about that for a second, 3 animals out of how many animals im that county/area? I agree that 1 is to many but talking numbers 3 deer dead from something that does not wipe out masses of animals, does not hurt humans and in the end...Did not die from CWD but a bullet or bumper. You speak of Wilderness Whitetails. They were the kings of the deer business and did not need to bring animals into their farm and they didn't. They were a closed herd for like 10 years.
Now you do realize that CWD prion has been found in corn and alfalfa correct? Now do you think its right that some farmer is harvesting high moisture corn say in Wisconsin,in a CWD hot zone,selling it to a big feed company and i end up with a bag of CWD infected corn from my feed dealer way up here in Ny and now i just infected my deer with CWD just trying to feed them?

I can show you a handful of pictures of dead. hunter harvested Elk coming out of Colorado and crossing borders all the way to Ohio. Whole animals to be brought into another state to be rendered and the scraps thrown who knows where! The states are not worried about hay,grains,dead animals coming and going from states but they sure do have a problem with a live deer coming off a deer farm that has been tested for CWD for over 10 years coming into their states.

You do know this Patty Klein that is the head of CWD research for the USDA, She was a leader of an animal rights group before she started with USDA and had vowed long before her USDA job to rid the world of high fence. I would go as far to say that if it was possible and someone shut the whole deer business down with a stroke of a pen you would see CWD spoke of in a way different light and would drop in the news as fast as Ebola did.....

I knew this would turn in to being the farmers fault! hahahahahahaha!

 

[gunther89]

I hunt in Sauk county WI which is in the heart of the CWD zone. I can tell you that probably 75% of people don't worry about CWD and don't get their deer tested either. I can also show you dozens upon dozens of mature 3+ year old bucks that got shot this past year in the CWD zone. I'm not just talking in Sauk county but also Dane, Richland, Columbia, Iowa and Grant. My cousin and I keep a very close eye on our property and between the 12 cameras we have out, we have never seen a mature buck that looked sick or found a dead buck. Heck we have a 9.5+ year old buck around(6 years worth of trail camera pictures) and he shows no signs of slowing down. Yet I'm being told 30% of mature bucks die from this disease. I am certain the CWD zone will continue to produce big mature bucks whether the DNR thinks so or not.

 

[shawnv]

I spent a lot of time researching CWD this summer and it concerns me. As it relates to what dipper posted.

1) The comments about no deer being left in the Western CWD are spin as it relates to CWD. Some areas were also hit with EHD which caused some local population dives.
2) The infection rate has increased out West but not as fast as it has increased WI.
3) There are different strains of CWD, none are transmissible yet.
4) The acres infected in CWD are gowning at almost 30% per year. Many areas currently infected are seeing an infection increase
5) Plant matter now carries this so it's everywhere
6) If the disease makes the jump to humans (A lab has made this possible in a test), the federal govt will take action as a matter of homeland security.
7) A vaccine is being tested and shows promise but is still years away. Even with a vaccine, how to administer it is problematic

 

[shawnv]

This is one reason I have no desire to be so financially invested in a property who's value is mostly due to the deer that live there.

 

[Four Seasons]

I spent a lot of time researching CWD this summer and it concerns me. As it relates to what dipper posted.

1) The comments about no deer being left in the Western CWD are spin as it relates to CWD. Some areas were also hit with EHD which caused some local population dives.
2) The infection rate has increased out West but not as fast as it has increased WI.
3) There are different strains of CWD, none are transmissible yet.
4) The acres infected in CWD are gowning at almost 30% per year. Many areas currently infected are seeing an infection increase
5) Plant matter now carries this so it's everywhere
6) If the disease makes the jump to humans (A lab has made this possible in a test), the federal govt will take action as a matter of homeland security.
7) A vaccine is being tested and shows promise but is still years away. Even with a vaccine, how to administer it is problematic

Pretty good research. There is much more, like CWD is the same prion as Scrapies. One in deer and one in sheep. It has been proven that the Scrapiess in sheep have shown genitic markers. Meaning not all sheep in a herd will get the disease. They believe the same holds true in whitetails and CWD and seems to make sense with some areas getting alot of cases and others only getting a few.
The bad thing and the one part that shows an agenda is when a farm gets CWD the farmer is paid and the deer are killed. Why???? Why not lock the place down...Like they do anyways..and let the herd live out their lives and do the research? Same as all the samples taken off the Iowa farm and now not being allowed to be researched. Why??? Because they know the truth. Just like the herd of red deer in Min that had over 500 head i believe and only 1 positive, yet they kill them all. The Govt and states had an agenda an its not playing out for their hand.
We are hoping for a vaccine also but we believe right now our money was better well spent on a live test so we could prove in court that our animals are clean and able to be moved across state lines and states not allowed to close borders. The sooner everybody on both sides of the fence come together on this the faster we will get somewhere with a fix. Many love to see the line this has drawn between sportmen groups i am sure.

 

[j-bird]

This is one reason I have no desire to be so financially invested in a property who's value is mostly due to the deer that live there.

As much as would love to turn my entire farm into deer habitat Shawnv's statement is a good argument why I don't do that. Those crops make me far more money than the deer ever will and will help the property hold it's value to a wider market as well.