USDA/ SWCD helps w/ habitat improvements

[White Birch Farm]

Obviously it's not all bad as there have been good experiences from people on this board who liked it.

That is 100% correct. A lot of complaints have been made here that are literally 100% the opposite of the experience I, and several other people I know, have had.

As a simple example, I have legally been able to do all kinds of work in wetlands areas without the need for burdensome permitting processes specifically because of the specialized state and federal forestry and habitat programs that I am involved in.

Projects like this vernal pool I built (and about 20 others), I would never have done without their involvement.

 

[Tree Spud]

As a simple example, I have legally been able to do all kinds of work in wetlands areas without the need for burdensome permitting processes specifically because of the specialized state and federal forestry and habitat programs that I am involved in.

Projects like this vernal pool I built (and about 20 others), I would never have done without their involvement.

View attachment 27754

PERFECT ... we all should now trust the Govt friends that will make our dreams come true

 

[White Birch Farm]

Results of a 10 acre seed tree harvest of low quality Pin Oak, from a mature stand with closed canopy, which I would have never done myself because it would have been close to a break even project.

Instead, with NRCS funding, I received help planning and executing the harvest....and cleared over $14,000, which was very close to the full value of the wood removed from the area.

There was zero limitations restricting me from doing the harvest the way I wanted, nor are there any on-going restrictions that will limit my ability to use or manage the land in the manner I want.

 

[roymunson]

PERFECT ... we all should now trust the Govt friends that will make our dreams come true

Based on your last few posts, it wouldn't matter what they did, any involvement by a government entity is wrong. If you were drowning and they had air, you'd probably pass, right?

 

[Tree Spud]

Based on your last few posts, it wouldn't matter what they did, any involvement by a government entity is wrong. If you were drowning and they had air, you'd probably pass, right?

You are correct. I would never rely on someone else for something I could find, create, or learn to do myself. If I was drowning, I would pretty quickly learn how to swim.

 

[homerj]

I don't understand why a person interested in habitat would require or be interested in money from the government for doing what they know is the right thing to do?

 

[roymunson]

I don't understand why a person interested in habitat would require or be interested in money from the government for doing what they know is the right thing to do?

I'm just fleshing out what's available. And if the "goals" align, as in if i'm able to put in the kind of habitat that I was planning on the whole time, and get some of my tax money back that I've paid in, why not?

Now if those goals don't align, there's no way that I'm going to sign up. Just seeing what's out there.

I have about 40 acres I'd like to put in a mix of warm season grasses and white pines/thermal cover and screening. Not the end of the world, but they'd be long term stands. So if they want to pay me for that, I figured I'd at least hear them out. If not, I'll simply do it myself.

 

[White Birch Farm]

I don't understand why a person interested in habitat would require or be interested in money from the government

Do you understand the concept of leverage? If you do, then you should understand the answer to your own question.

In almost every program you get paid nothing unless you first complete some specific habitat improvement all with your own time and money. Only then, once everything is certified as having been completed properly, do you receive any cost share. Once that first project is complete you can start using that money, which is now your own, to do more improvements. With absolutely zero question, the end result is that more habitat improvements get done than they would without it because the funding that is provided at the completion of each project provides financial leverage that can be applied to completing the next contract.

Additionally, the programs provide access to specialist, including soil scientist and biologists, etc, to help make executing the projects more efficient and effective.

So, the answer to your question is...if someone wants to do habitat improvements to do what is right...why wouldnt they accept assistance that helps them do more of it, and in a higher quality fashion? They answer is obvious. They would.

 

[roymunson]

While we're on this topic, what are your opinions on crop sharing with a local farmer? It the first year of being on this farm and I'd like to watch deer movement some and learn how we want to set this thing up. So there are portions where a crop would be ideal (not the same portions where CRP or the like would be the plan).

We have a number of farmers around who would probably farm it, all I'd really want out of it is a couple acres left in standing corn/beans after they harvest.

It's only 20-30 acres to plant, but i figured they'd be happy to farm "free" land if all it cost them was a little seed and leaving some stand at the end of the harvest. Anyone have experiences in how they've set this up in the past.

 

[Dukslayr]

Some visceral responses on this thread, but certainly not a surprise. I’ll give you my take. I’m only 1.5 years into owning a property that has 125 acres worth of CRP on it. The contracts were inherited from the previous owner and I’m on the tail end of two consecutive enrollments. I have about 2 years left on my contract. At this point I’m 50/50 on what I will do when it expires (assuming there’s are still funds available). Here’s what I’m learning.
A lot depends on your local agency. Our local NRCS office has been great to work with and, thus far, not been looking for reasons to jam anyone up. We use their drill all the time for minimal cost and my local farmer and I have even done some minor repairs on their equipment. If you have a great NRCS crew it helps everything...just like bosses, law enforcement, waiters and everything else, some are better than others.
My plan when the contracts expire is to meet with them and have a discussion about my plans and goals and see what programs, if any, would allow me to reach those goals without severely limiting me. My land would likely rent for 150.00 per acre for crop rental; that’s a pretty decent chunk of money. I don’t necessarily have to have it, but it sure helps find improvements and shows income to justify my tax write offs.
Definitely go meet with your local office, explain your goals and situation and thoroughly discuss all details (including required maintenance) of any programs you’d consider. Best of luck!

 

[bwoods11]

While we're on this topic, what are your opinions on crop sharing with a local farmer? It the first year of being on this farm and I'd like to watch deer movement some and learn how we want to set this thing up. So there are portions where a crop would be ideal (not the same portions where CRP or the like would be the plan).

We have a number of farmers around who would probably farm it, all I'd really want out of it is a couple acres left in standing corn/beans after they harvest.

It's only 20-30 acres to plant, but i figured they'd be happy to farm "free" land if all it cost them was a little seed and leaving some stand at the end of the harvest. Anyone have experiences in how they've set this up in the past.

I would have someone rent it, and as part of the rental agreement they leave 2 acres or crop. That is what I do. Easy food plot, and change the location each year to make sure the you get a fresh plot. Sometimes areas that have been left as plots, do not yield as well the next year, depends on many factors.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

While we're on this topic, what are your opinions on crop sharing with a local farmer? It the first year of being on this farm and I'd like to watch deer movement some and learn how we want to set this thing up. So there are portions where a crop would be ideal (not the same portions where CRP or the like would be the plan).

We have a number of farmers around who would probably farm it, all I'd really want out of it is a couple acres left in standing corn/beans after they harvest.

It's only 20-30 acres to plant, but i figured they'd be happy to farm "free" land if all it cost them was a little seed and leaving some stand at the end of the harvest. Anyone have experiences in how they've set this up in the past.

I do the same thing as bwoods. I would recommend making everything very clear on the rental agreement how many acres they will be renting at what price and how many acres of food plots must be left. You can get paid to rent out your tilllable acres and also have some food plots left for the deer.

 

[roymunson]

I do the same thing as bwoods. I would recommend making everything very clear on the rental agreement how many acres they will be renting at what price and how many acres of food plots must be left. You can get paid to rent out your tilllable acres and also have some food plots left for the deer.

That's the plan, But i'd rent it to them cheap if I can get them to leave some of their crops standing for late season. That's my goal.

 

[homerj]

Do you understand the concept of leverage? If you do, then you should understand the answer to your own question.

In almost every program you get paid nothing unless you first complete some specific habitat improvement all with your own time and money. Only then, once everything is certified as having been completed properly, do you receive any cost share. Once that first project is complete you can start using that money, which is now your own, to do more improvements. With absolutely zero question, the end result is that more habitat improvements get done than they would without it because the funding that is provided at the completion of each project provides financial leverage that can be applied to completing the next contract.

Additionally, the programs provide access to specialist, including soil scientist and biologists, etc, to help make executing the projects more efficient and effective.

So, the answer to your question is...if someone wants to do habitat improvements to do what is right...why wouldnt they accept assistance that helps them do more of it, and in a higher quality fashion? They answer is obvious. They would.

Sounds like what I'd expect someone from the government to say. Thanks

 

[FarmerDan]

And so, there you go. Both sides of the coin. What we are discussing are voluntary programs. Take it or leave it. No problem. There are so many programs, at least here in Virginia, one needs a concierge to figure it out. There's federal money thru FSA and NRCS. State money comes thru the Soil & Water Conservation Districts. There's help from the Department of Forestry, and some programs involve all of those agencies. If you decide to take the money, be clear on THEIR objectives because the deal is for objectives other than creating great deer habitat for you. You are renting your land for another purpose. Hey, its very liberal when you think about it. You still get to use it. You can keep other people out, but don't violate the provisions of the contract. Now you are a landlord and you've lost some control of your property. On the other hand, you've been handed some money. There are 23 - 24 million acres enrolled in CRP. Somebody likes it. Then there are all the other programs. In this country that conservation effort - money for your cooperation touches at least 50 million acres. Some want to take the money and play their own game, and like with taxes and the IRS, a few get burned. For the most part, there is NO penalty if you lie, cheat, or steal. You simply pay back the money you've been paid plus a little interest - t-bill rates.

There's that. If you want to do habitat improvement on your terms and have the resources to do it and want your independence, then just do it. I get it. I'm with you. I want to do it on my terms. Here's an option. If you don't want the money, there's lots of public help -- if you want it. NRCS has soil scientists, wildlife specialists, engineers, and other's more than willing to consult with you for free and you are under no obligation contractually. Bring in a state forester, a wildlife specialist, people who know there stuff and listen. Or you can do it yourself.

Really, there are lots of great options. Pick what's best for you.

 

[roymunson]

And so, there you go. Both sides of the coin. What we are discussing are voluntary programs. Take it or leave it. No problem. There are so many programs, at least here in Virginia, one needs a concierge to figure it out. There's federal money thru FSA and NRCS. State money comes thru the Soil & Water Conservation Districts. There's help from the Department of Forestry, and some programs involve all of those agencies. If you decide to take the money, be clear on THEIR objectives because the deal is for objectives other than creating great deer habitat for you. You are renting your land for another purpose. Hey, its very liberal when you think about it. You still get to use it. You can keep other people out, but don't violate the provisions of the contract. Now you are a landlord and you've lost some control of your property. On the other hand, you've been handed some money. There are 23 - 24 million acres enrolled in CRP. Somebody likes it. Then there are all the other programs. In this country that conservation effort - money for your cooperation touches at least 50 million acres. Some want to take the money and play their own game, and like with taxes and the IRS, a few get burned. For the most part, there is NO penalty if you lie, cheat, or steal. You simply pay back the money you've been paid plus a little interest - t-bill rates.

There's that. If you want to do habitat improvement on your terms and have the resources to do it and want your independence, then just do it. I get it. I'm with you. I want to do it on my terms. Here's an option. If you don't want the money, there's lots of public help -- if you want it. NRCS has soil scientists, wildlife specialists, engineers, and other's more than willing to consult with you for free and you are under no obligation contractually. Bring in a state forester, a wildlife specialist, people who know there stuff and listen. Or you can do it yourself.

Really, there are lots of great options. Pick what's best for you.

Thanks for being the voice of reason. I was simply casting a net for opinions on here. And, I guess I got em...

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I agree, my objective is good deer habitat, and that may not be the objective of the government side of things. I'll have to evaluate and decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[willy]

Roy, do you have pheasant's forever in your area and if so is there a pheasants forever biologist on staff at your local nrcs office?

I just met with the nrcs yesterday trying to figure out if I have any projects that I could do on a farm. Unfortunately I have basically done all that EQIP would have helped out on but I am able to plant a pile of shrubs that will all be paid for, from prep to post planting care. I am going to use these as edge setters for a food plot and in a couple other places that will enhance some nwsg plantings.

When I first started the projects on this farm in '08 EQIP did not have funding to help with projects I did but if I was doing today they would have been all in (per what the EQIP GUY said yesterday. Since you are just beginning on this farm I would talk to the EQIP people at your nrcs office.

The EQIP guidelines don't have a lot of wiggle room but I would see what might fit your needs. You ultimately make the call if you want to go with it.

The pheasants forever program is a lot more flexible and they have a lot of programs that I think would be able to meet your needs. They really want to help establish wildlife habitat and not just for pheasants.

I have another farm in another county that I have projects that EQIP looks like it may fit and I also have lots of projects where the pheasant forever program will for sure help out.

In a presentation a week ago I went to given by people in the above offices it was said that the gov portion that deals with natural resources/conservation realize that if private landowners don't invest in habitat conservation and promotion on their properties then nothing will get done or change and so they are more open to getting projects going now than in the past.

That sentiment was noticed yesterday.

Farmerdan is spot on with his post above, especially the part about all nrcs/fsa office personel are not created equally. Two counties I work with are exceptional to work with and really want to help. The office I was at yesterday the nrcs side is great but the person I have to work with in the FSA is a complete incompetent hag. She is not the person one wants to have working with people, its as though she's there to drive people away. The 2 farmers that I know that have to work with her on their farms filings cringe when they have to go in to see her. In fact one changed over to the other county their land is in because of her. After the crp contracts go through or are denied I am transfering my business from this office to one of the other counties I work with. I inquired with the county I'm switching to and they said that was fine, in fact it was there suggestion. They are good people.

 

[FarmerDan]

Thanks for being the voice of reason. I was simply casting a net for opinions on here. And, I guess I got em...

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I agree, my objective is good deer habitat, and that may not be the objective of the government side of things. I'll have to evaluate and decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.

Appreciate it.

There's a participant over on the Deer Hunter Forum. Goes by the name, Mennoniteman. Really smart guy. I hope he doesn't find out I wrote that. Anyhow, he decided to enroll 50 acres in, wait for it, the song bird habitat practice. Seems as though deer and song birds like to live together! Imagine that!

 

[FarmerDan]

Roy, do you have pheasant's forever in your area and if so is there a pheasants forever biologist on staff at your local nrcs office?


The office I was at yesterday the nrcs side is great but the person I have to work with in the FSA is a complete incompetent hag. She is not the person one wants to have working with people, its as though she's there to drive people away. The 2 farmers that I know that have to work with her on their farms filings cringe when they have to go in to see her. In fact one changed over to the other county their land is in because of her. After the crp contracts go through or are denied I am transfering my business from this office to one of the other counties I work with. I inquired with the county I'm switching to and they said that was fine, in fact it was there suggestion. They are good people.

Two lessons come to mind. There are two decisions you want to consider deeply and long-ly. One, be careful who you marry, and, two, when you are in government and in a position to hire, choose wisely.

Both are very expensive to get rid of!

 

[SWIFFY]

Heres my scenario Roy.... I have 80 acres in CRP. Its been enrolled 3 times over the last 45 years. Theres pluses and minuses. Overall I am not happy with how they want to manage my property... but I need the money to help pay the taxes and im happy I can get the help to do that. Be careful about food plots and think ahead because the NRCS office does not seem to want you puting in "kill plots" in land thats enrolled in CRP, you need to have that hammered out in advance. Over the years the fellas at my NRCS office seem to have become more lenient as to what they let me do. Over, erosion control is all they care about IMO. They dont care how "good" the habitat is for any critters, just as long as it has roots in it, they dont want to pay to change it. Thats been my experience.

If money or equipment wasnt and issue id NEVER sign with them... but I dont have a lot of either. Its been a relationship that has worked and I dont regret it. As others have said, do your research and know what you are getting into.