White Spruce VS Norway
- Thread starter Cool Hand Luke
- Start date
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
I've planted hundreds of Norways over the years, and some white spruce as well. Probably 5-to-1 ratio of Norways over whites. Norways definitely faster growth rate, both kinds like sunlight over shade to get best thickness. We "top" the leaders to force more thick branching for screens. Some years we get 2 to 3 feet of growth, and those leaders get tall and spindly - so we cut them back a bit = more & thicker lower limbs. We've planted no blue spruce because of the disease they get.
I throw down some 10-10-10 in years 2 through 7, but not at planting- don't want to burn any roots. As other have said, years 3 and 4 for us have been when the spruce take off with growth, after establishing good root systems the first 2 years. Caging definitely will preserve your spruce until they get bigger - but as Brian 662 said above, once cages are off, they'll rub spruce up to even 10 ft. tall. Bucks will tear into the lower limbs sometimes at our place, but by then the spruce are well-established and survive such rubbing. They recover. Good luck with your plantings!
I throw down some 10-10-10 in years 2 through 7, but not at planting- don't want to burn any roots. As other have said, years 3 and 4 for us have been when the spruce take off with growth, after establishing good root systems the first 2 years. Caging definitely will preserve your spruce until they get bigger - but as Brian 662 said above, once cages are off, they'll rub spruce up to even 10 ft. tall. Bucks will tear into the lower limbs sometimes at our place, but by then the spruce are well-established and survive such rubbing. They recover. Good luck with your plantings!
Cool Hand Luke
5 year old buck +
Thanks guys! I just got off the phone with the director of the local swcd. He said he'd cut me break on the Norways @ $2.30 a piece if I order over 100. They're 4yr. transplants up to 30" and much too big for a dibble bar. He recommended a post hole digger. Looks like I'm gonna have my work cut out for me...
We've planted over 5000 evergreens by hand using a dibble bar in both NW WI and SE MN using DNR nursery bare root trees. I've planted a mix of white pine, red pine and white spruce and all did really well. The white spruce start out slow, but after 18 years they are the same size as the white pines and red pines that start out faster. 18"+ year growth average is common for all of the trees and that can increase in wet years. The pines eventually lose their lower branches and aren't as effective as a visual screen or as small game cover. I'm sure they will make great turkey roosting in 40 years, but that is a long time to wait.
My oldest plantings are now almost 18 years old, and the white spruce still have their needles on their lower limbs wherever they are in full sun. If your deer numbers are high, they will likely browse the pines in winter - the deer really liked both red and white pines in both of my places. The white spruce were never touched though. As mentioned, the bucks really like to rub pines and spruce, but I had far fewer issues with spruce because they tend to have more branches at the base. The spruce will usually survive rubbing and send up a new central leader if the main leader is destroyed, but it is irritating to lose a few years of growth.
My largest plantings were as a visual screen around my fields and those trees were planted and left to fend for themselves with no cages, mulch or fertilizer. I'd guess my survival rate was 95%+. In SE MN, the deer numbers are higher and I'll occasionally use a cage to protect a few trees that I really want to protect.
I planted a few hundred white spruce last spring in established sod and they did really well with no after planting care or fertilizer. I'd estimate the survival rate was over 90%.
I'd recommend taking lots of pictures before and during the planting process since it is always nice to be able to look back at the old pictures years down the road.
My oldest plantings are now almost 18 years old, and the white spruce still have their needles on their lower limbs wherever they are in full sun. If your deer numbers are high, they will likely browse the pines in winter - the deer really liked both red and white pines in both of my places. The white spruce were never touched though. As mentioned, the bucks really like to rub pines and spruce, but I had far fewer issues with spruce because they tend to have more branches at the base. The spruce will usually survive rubbing and send up a new central leader if the main leader is destroyed, but it is irritating to lose a few years of growth.
My largest plantings were as a visual screen around my fields and those trees were planted and left to fend for themselves with no cages, mulch or fertilizer. I'd guess my survival rate was 95%+. In SE MN, the deer numbers are higher and I'll occasionally use a cage to protect a few trees that I really want to protect.
I planted a few hundred white spruce last spring in established sod and they did really well with no after planting care or fertilizer. I'd estimate the survival rate was over 90%.
I'd recommend taking lots of pictures before and during the planting process since it is always nice to be able to look back at the old pictures years down the road.
Cool Hand Luke
5 year old buck +
Ben, that sure is a lot of trees! Would love to see what it turned into. That would probably cost a fortune now. I'm sure it's been rewarding looking back.
How big of a bare root do you think you can get away with using a dibble bar to plant? I'm just trying to get the best trees I can afford and get as many in the ground as possible because of lack of cover. I hate the idea of having to get a guy out to run the auger on the tractor but if getting a bigger tree in the ground is worth the extra planting time, I suppose I need to do just that.
Brian662
5 year old buck +
It's been said here 100 times, but you get what you pay for with trees. For every guy who have had mass tree planting success, 10 or more have failed.
Your best bang for your buck IMO is to buy less bigger trees (versus more smaller trees) and pay for their care and do it once. If you do that every year, you'll likely have the quickest and best results.
Your best bang for your buck IMO is to buy less bigger trees (versus more smaller trees) and pay for their care and do it once. If you do that every year, you'll likely have the quickest and best results.
Cool Hand Luke
5 year old buck +
No sense in beatin' a dead horse! I'm taking the advice. Thanks man! I am a little nervous about spray drift from the big crop field border. I'm hoping about 16' from the property line is safe.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Grow switch grass between the farmer field and your trees.
The tree prices were pretty cheap when we first started planting them in 2007 - I think they were only around $0.15 per tree if you bought 1000 of one size and species. I've had good luck planting the 2 and 3 year old bare root trees that are up to a foot tall (not counting the root size). Trees larger than that are a big pain to plant and I avoid them if possible. One year I bought some cottonwood trees, and their roots were huge and planting them was not fun.
Tree planting with a dibble bar is a 2 man job and once you get in the swing of things, you can plant 50-100 trees per hour depending on the terrain.
My tree planting plan was the opposite of some, but it worked well for my situation. I planted over a mile of visual screens and small game habitat plantings and it was 5 rows deep, so caging, mats and fertilizer wasn't possible. I'll take some pictures the next time I'm at my WI place, but those tree rows from 2007 look great now.
I lost 500 trees when the farmer renting my field turned around in my young tree rows with his sprayer running. After that, I added steel fenceposts to mark the tree boundary and I also made some signs that said trees planted, no spray.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
If you can swing it, I would recommend and Earthquake Auger with either a 6" or 8" drill head. For the 4 yr tn's this will allow you to get the depth and width of hole for spreading the roots out. It's about $300 and will same you alot of time and your back/shoulders.
Earthquake 43cc Earth Auger Combo with 8" Auger - 35064 | Blain's Farm & Fleet
Get your Earthquake 43cc Earth Auger Combo with 8" Auger - 35064 at Blain's Farm & Fleet. Buy online, choose delivery or in-store pickup. Great prices on Earth Augers.
www.farmandfleet.com
Cool Hand Luke
5 year old buck +
That had to have made you absolutely sick!
Cool Hand Luke
5 year old buck +
I was looking at that or Harbor freight. I do like that I could get this in tight spots. Do you have any experience with the 3pt mounted ones?If you can swing it, I would recommend and Earthquake Auger with either a 6" or 8" drill head. For the 4 yr tn's this will allow you to get the depth and width of hole for spreading the roots out. It's about $300 and will same you alot of time and your back/shoulders.
Earthquake 43cc Earth Auger Combo with 8" Auger - 35064 | Blain's Farm & Fleet
Get your Earthquake 43cc Earth Auger Combo with 8" Auger - 35064 at Blain's Farm & Fleet. Buy online, choose delivery or in-store pickup. Great prices on Earth Augers.www.farmandfleet.com
Cool Hand Luke
5 year old buck +
I thought about it but that'll catch spray for sure. I'm thinking of just making that a mowed path that I can use to get around and work without driving through cover. Then if it does get some overspray, no biggie.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Teeder
5 year old buck +
That would be the last time that dude stepped foot on my land.
I wasn't very happy, but I was lucky that only one section of trees was killed. It was the local co-op that the farmer contracted to do the spraying, so my renter wasn't very happy about the situation either.
The co-op paid me for the trees they killed, but because I'm stupid I only made them pay the cost of the trees which was pretty low. In hindsight I should have added some money to cover the cost of the labor portion of the tree planting day.
Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
I live at 5000 ft of elevation, avg rainfall of 13 inches. Zone 5 A, pH of 7.3 and a heavy ish clay. Its gravity irrigated “ so there is intermittent total soil saturation. I have Blue spruce, black hills spruce, Norway spruce, jack pine, ponderosa pine, Jeffery pine, Doug fir, Balsam fir some unidentified conifers I dug up and transplanted and finally Austrian or Black pine.
The Black Pine has the best appearance of a privacy screen. It also grow as fast as any.
As a side note, I am really excited about the red cedars I transplanted from Minnesota.
I would like to find a tree that produces edible pine nuts.
But if I buy any more conifers, it will be black pine.
The Black Pine has the best appearance of a privacy screen. It also grow as fast as any.
As a side note, I am really excited about the red cedars I transplanted from Minnesota.
I would like to find a tree that produces edible pine nuts.
But if I buy any more conifers, it will be black pine.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
In the Midwest there are reports of fungal and insect problems sometimes with black pine. Not sure if at the same level as issues with blue spruce but fyi for folks to check with local forestry sources before making choices. Or as mentioned by someone's smart dad, diversity is not a bad thing.
