TNM Eagle Seed Beans?

[yoderjac]

The eagle seed beans are the difference between growing a bean plot with plants and leaves - or having nothing with regular ag beans. And the eagle seed are not a sure thing. I have had plenty of failure with them too. But it is the best chance for something out there during summer. Just like corn - I know if I plant it, the hogs will get it - so I don’t plant corn. If I plant ag beans, they won’t make it past the first two months.

Keep in mind that there are probably lots of new folks reading this thread, so let's be clear. All varieties of soybeans make claims of being better than others in certain characteristics. Eagle makes these claims just like Pioneer and other soybean see companies. So, let's set aside brand names for a minute.

There are two major classes of soybeans, Ag (agricultural) beans and Forage beans. Ag beans are bred to maximize the number and size of the bean pods. These are the soybeans that we eat and go into our products. Forage beans are bread for their forage production for livestock, not pod production. They do produce pods, of course, but the pods are smaller and of less nutritional value. They are much more resistant to browse pressure as they put most of their energy into regenerating leaves rather than producing pods. They establish faster and generally are not killed by browse pressure if planted in sufficient volume. I've had deer keep 5 acres of forage beans naked all summer but could not kill them. As soon as the deer would eat a leaf, the plant would respond by growing another.

What kind of beans do food plotter need? It depends. In the north, folks doing QDM and trying to attract deer during the late season need pod production. As long as deer densities are low enough relative to food availability and acreage of beans during the summer so that you can establish Ag beans, they are the way to go for folks in this situation. Folks in this situation should be considering other characteristics of Ag beans. Different varieties have different characteristics. You need a maturity group that will produce pods in your area and depending on weather, you may need shatter resistance.

Folks doing QDM further south, especially with high deer densities, will do better with forage beans. Here summer is the stress period, and forage beans produce the summer forage needed. They are generally an indeterminate bean that stays green much longer. This often keeps them attractive well into Archery season in the south. Folks somewhat further north, where stress periods are more balanced, may benefit from forage beans if they can't establish Ag beans because of deer densities.

Most ag beans are Roundup Ready (RR). In most places you have to special order non-rr ag beans. Forage beans, on the other hand are mostly non-RR. Eagle is the company that licensed the RR gene from Monsanto. So, the real claim to fame for Eagle is that they are RR. Yes, Eagle claims all kinds of other benefits like every brand, but the real differentiator is the RR characteristic on a forage bean. So, when folks say Eagle Beans, they are really talking mostly about RR-Forage beans in general. I think there are a few other companies now selling RR-Forage beans but not enough to push the price down to the Ag bean level.

RR-Forage beans are not quite as expensive on a per acre basis at is first seems when you look at the price per bag. The recommended seeding rates are general lower for forage beans than ag beans. They are still more expensive on a per acre basis, but the difference is not as large as the per bag cost difference.

Why does RR matter? For folks with high deer density in the south, also have to contend with heavy summer weed completion. The combination of browse pressure and weed completion generally make it hard if not impossible to establish ag beans except in very high acreage where deer are overwhelmed. Weed competition also can significantly reduce the amount of forage that forage beans can produce. The RR quality makes it easy and inexpensive to control weeds with glyphosate. There are other ways to control weeds using pre-emergent and other herbicides, but it is more complicated and more expensive.

Things may be changing. With more glyphosate resistant weeds becoming a problem, the value of the RR characteristic is declining in many areas. There are new gene/herbicide combinations becoming available but I have not yet seen any for forage beans. It may take a while for them to come out. In the mean-time, for many non-RR forage beans like Tyrone (or whatever variety is appropriate for your area) with pre-emergent herbicides may be becoming a more viable option.

I realize most of the guys posting to this thread know all this stuff, but I'm sure there are many more reading the thread.

Thanks,

jack

 

[SwampCat]

Keep in mind that there are probably lots of new folks reading this thread, so let's be clear. All varieties of soybeans make claims of being better than others in certain characteristics. Eagle makes these claims just like Pioneer and other soybean see companies. So, let's set aside brand names for a minute.

There are two major classes of soybeans, Ag (agricultural) beans and Forage beans. Ag beans are bred to maximize the number and size of the bean pods. These are the soybeans that we eat and go into our products. Forage beans are bread for their forage production for livestock, not pod production. They do produce pods, of course, but the pods are smaller and of less nutritional value. They are much more resistant to browse pressure as they put most of their energy into regenerating leaves rather than producing pods. They establish faster and generally are not killed by browse pressure if planted in sufficient volume. I've had deer keep 5 acres of forage beans naked all summer but could not kill them. As soon as the deer would eat a leaf, the plant would respond by growing another.

What kind of beans do food plotter need? It depends. In the north, folks doing QDM and trying to attract deer during the late season need pod production. As long as deer densities are low enough relative to food availability and acreage of beans during the summer so that you can establish Ag beans, they are the way to go for folks in this situation. Folks in this situation should be considering other characteristics of Ag beans. Different varieties have different characteristics. You need a maturity group that will produce pods in your area and depending on weather, you may need shatter resistance.

Folks doing QDM further south, especially with high deer densities, will do better with forage beans. Here summer is the stress period, and forage beans produce the summer forage needed. They are generally an indeterminate bean that stays green much longer. This often keeps them attractive well into Archery season in the south. Folks somewhat further north, where stress periods are more balanced, may benefit from forage beans if they can't establish Ag beans because of deer densities.

Most ag beans are Roundup Ready (RR). In most places you have to special order non-rr ag beans. Forage beans, on the other hand are mostly non-RR. Eagle is the company that licensed the RR gene from Monsanto. So, the real claim to fame for Eagle is that they are RR. Yes, Eagle claims all kinds of other benefits like every brand, but the real differentiator is the RR characteristic on a forage bean. So, when folks say Eagle Beans, they are really talking mostly about RR-Forage beans in general. I think there are a few other companies now selling RR-Forage beans but not enough to push the price down to the Ag bean level.

RR-Forage beans are not quite as expensive on a per acre basis at is first seems when you look at the price per bag. The recommended seeding rates are general lower for forage beans than ag beans. They are still more expensive on a per acre basis, but the difference is not as large as the per bag cost difference.

Why does RR matter? For folks with high deer density in the south, also have to contend with heavy summer weed completion. The combination of browse pressure and weed completion generally make it hard if not impossible to establish ag beans except in very high acreage where deer are overwhelmed. Weed competition also can significantly reduce the amount of forage that forage beans can produce. The RR quality makes it easy and inexpensive to control weeds with glyphosate. There are other ways to control weeds using pre-emergent and other herbicides, but it is more complicated and more expensive.

Things may be changing. With more glyphosate resistant weeds becoming a problem, the value of the RR characteristic is declining in many areas. There are new gene/herbicide combinations becoming available but I have not yet seen any for forage beans. It may take a while for them to come out. In the mean-time, for many non-RR forage beans like Tyrone (or whatever variety is appropriate for your area) with pre-emergent herbicides may be becoming a more viable option.

I realize most of the guys posting to this thread know all this stuff, but I'm sure there are many more reading the thread.

Thanks,

jack

 

[SwampCat]

Keep in mind that there are probably lots of new folks reading this thread, so let's be clear. All varieties of soybeans make claims of being better than others in certain characteristics. Eagle makes these claims just like Pioneer and other soybean see companies. So, let's set aside brand names for a minute.

There are two major classes of soybeans, Ag (agricultural) beans and Forage beans. Ag beans are bred to maximize the number and size of the bean pods. These are the soybeans that we eat and go into our products. Forage beans are bread for their forage production for livestock, not pod production. They do produce pods, of course, but the pods are smaller and of less nutritional value. They are much more resistant to browse pressure as they put most of their energy into regenerating leaves rather than producing pods. They establish faster and generally are not killed by browse pressure if planted in sufficient volume. I've had deer keep 5 acres of forage beans naked all summer but could not kill them. As soon as the deer would eat a leaf, the plant would respond by growing another.

What kind of beans do food plotter need? It depends. In the north, folks doing QDM and trying to attract deer during the late season need pod production. As long as deer densities are low enough relative to food availability and acreage of beans during the summer so that you can establish Ag beans, they are the way to go for folks in this situation. Folks in this situation should be considering other characteristics of Ag beans. Different varieties have different characteristics. You need a maturity group that will produce pods in your area and depending on weather, you may need shatter resistance.

Folks doing QDM further south, especially with high deer densities, will do better with forage beans. Here summer is the stress period, and forage beans produce the summer forage needed. They are generally an indeterminate bean that stays green much longer. This often keeps them attractive well into Archery season in the south. Folks somewhat further north, where stress periods are more balanced, may benefit from forage beans if they can't establish Ag beans because of deer densities.

Most ag beans are Roundup Ready (RR). In most places you have to special order non-rr ag beans. Forage beans, on the other hand are mostly non-RR. Eagle is the company that licensed the RR gene from Monsanto. So, the real claim to fame for Eagle is that they are RR. Yes, Eagle claims all kinds of other benefits like every brand, but the real differentiator is the RR characteristic on a forage bean. So, when folks say Eagle Beans, they are really talking mostly about RR-Forage beans in general. I think there are a few other companies now selling RR-Forage beans but not enough to push the price down to the Ag bean level.

RR-Forage beans are not quite as expensive on a per acre basis at is first seems when you look at the price per bag. The recommended seeding rates are general lower for forage beans than ag beans. They are still more expensive on a per acre basis, but the difference is not as large as the per bag cost difference.

Why does RR matter? For folks with high deer density in the south, also have to contend with heavy summer weed completion. The combination of browse pressure and weed completion generally make it hard if not impossible to establish ag beans except in very high acreage where deer are overwhelmed. Weed competition also can significantly reduce the amount of forage that forage beans can produce. The RR quality makes it easy and inexpensive to control weeds with glyphosate. There are other ways to control weeds using pre-emergent and other herbicides, but it is more complicated and more expensive.

Things may be changing. With more glyphosate resistant weeds becoming a problem, the value of the RR characteristic is declining in many areas. There are new gene/herbicide combinations becoming available but I have not yet seen any for forage beans. It may take a while for them to come out. In the mean-time, for many non-RR forage beans like Tyrone (or whatever variety is appropriate for your area) with pre-emergent herbicides may be becoming a more viable option.

I realize most of the guys posting to this thread know all this stuff, but I'm sure there are many more reading the thread.

Thanks,

jack

Yes, you are correct - you could have said, use the term "Eagle Seed Forage Beans instead of Eagle seed beans" - and it would have saved yourself a lot of typing.

 

[yoderjac]

Yes, you are correct - you could have said, use the term "Eagle Seed Forage Beans instead of Eagle seed beans" - and it would have saved yourself a lot of typing.

I think there is some value in rehashing some of this for new folks. Things are evolving as gly-resistance is becoming more problematic. I wanted to point out that there are other varieties of forage beans available and that they may be a better value for folks who in area where gly-resistance is a problem.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[JFK52]

I no till plant RR ag soy beans. I plant my RR Eagle forage beans by lightly disking the soil, spreading the beans and then using a cultipacker. I try to plant the RR Eagle beans right before a decent rain is forecast. The Eagle forage beans serve as a "sacrificial lamb" so to speak. They allow the deer to browse the leaves off the Eagles while leaving the RR ag soy beans alone. Sure my ag beans get browsed some, but not like when I had no Eagle beans in at the same time. A lot of my Eagle plots are smaller ones surrounded by cover. My ag beans are planted in larger fields that tend to be long and some what narrow.
This is what works for me. Last summer I had an outstanding yield on my 5 acre ag bean field. The deer are eating them right now as their get through the winter food source. My smaller 1 and 2 acre ag bean fields are completely eaten.

 

[yoderjac]

I no till plant RR ag soy beans. I plant my RR Eagle forage beans by lightly disking the soil, spreading the beans and then using a cultipacker. I try to plant the RR Eagle beans right before a decent rain is forecast. The Eagle forage beans serve as a "sacrificial lamb" so to speak. They allow the deer to browse the leaves off the Eagles while leaving the RR ag soy beans alone. Sure my ag beans get browsed some, but not like when I had no Eagle beans in at the same time. A lot of my Eagle plots are smaller ones surrounded by cover. My ag beans are planted in larger fields that tend to be long and some what narrow.
This is what works for me. Last summer I had an outstanding yield on my 5 acre ag bean field. The deer are eating them right now as their get through the winter food source. My smaller 1 and 2 acre ag bean fields are completely eaten.

Deer tend to browse fields from the outside in (cover to open). Another strategy I've seen used successfully is to plant the ag beans in the middle of the field and the more browse resistant RR forage beans around the perimeter.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SwampCat]

On one piece of property, there is a 600 acre ag field right next door. I try to wait until he plants his ag beans before I plant my eagle seed forage beans. That helps - but last year, the hogs ate ever seed before they had a chance to sprout - five acres. I followed that with tecomate lablab plus, and the hogs didn't mess with the seed - and the deer didn't eat the vegetation until early fall. Had all the beans cleaned up by mid December.

 

[ruskbucks]

I no till plant RR ag soy beans. I plant my RR Eagle forage beans by lightly disking the soil, spreading the beans and then using a cultipacker. I try to plant the RR Eagle beans right before a decent rain is forecast. The Eagle forage beans serve as a "sacrificial lamb" so to speak. They allow the deer to browse the leaves off the Eagles while leaving the RR ag soy beans alone. Sure my ag beans get browsed some, but not like when I had no Eagle beans in at the same time. A lot of my Eagle plots are smaller ones surrounded by cover. My ag beans are planted in larger fields that tend to be long and some what narrow.
This is what works for me. Last summer I had an outstanding yield on my 5 acre ag bean field. The deer are eating them right now as their get through the winter food source. My smaller 1 and 2 acre ag bean fields are completely eaten.

I have done this too. It was the only time I was able to get a decent amount of pods. Eagles along the woods, ag beans out past them. Although the ag beans did get browsed, they seem to concentrate mostly on the eagles. Even though the eagles ended up losing, they put up a heck of a fight.

 

[birdog]

I think there is some value in rehashing some of this for new folks. Things are evolving as gly-resistance is becoming more problematic. I wanted to point out that there are other varieties of forage beans available and that they may be a better value for folks who in area where gly-resistance is a problem.

Thanks,

Jack

I for one appreciate your response Jack. Thank you!