Thoughts on culling bucks with poor genetic potential.

[omicron1792]

Take these three deer. All are pretty young. The first two I want to grow and reach potential.


Then there is the third one. Do y’all think deer that show poor genetics year one can grow into large bucks? Or is it better to harvest them allowing better genetics to proliferate?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Take these three deer. All are pretty young. The first two I want to grow and reach potential.
View attachment 60452View attachment 60453

Then there is the third one. Do y’all think deer that show poor genetics year one can grow into large bucks? Or is it better to harvest them allowing better genetics to proliferate?
View attachment 60454

My take and I believe the take of people who study deer for a living. Erase the thought of manipulating genetics out of your mind forever! We aren’t touching the genetic blueprint one iota giving our limited knowledge and their unlimited range. There’s literally no telling what that buck will turn into. There’s sooo many more things to worry about.
Now if you need to remove a deer from the landscape because of lack of food I guess we can play that game but man I just feel like it’s too risky to start messing with.

 

[BenA]

I wouldn't do it thinking I was making a difference in future genetics in the deer that use my place. But, if the buck was mature, sub-par, and a regular, I would take him out so he wasn't dipping into my property's food/cover resources.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

My opinion on this matter is that even though it doesn't have a great rack I still want the deer to make it to maturity. I don't have high deer numbers by any means and I like to have some older "cull" bucks in the herd to hunt in case my target buck(s) get shot by someone else. If I was in a high deer number area I might think differently about it. In the end if you ask me, the more bucks on the property the better.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Prime example. Deer is old as dirt. Clearly never going to amount to anything. Do I think this deer is running around spreading a generation of bucks that have his traits…no.

 

[Mortenson]

Another angle to consider is that the TV experts want all their deer to be 30 pointers. They "cull" big 8s. I'm in the camp who wants a 150" 6 pointer or a 160" 8 on my wall. I'd take a big frame over more points any day.

 

[Baker]

I can write a book on this but have a busy day ahead....so cliff notes.
I never cull anything before 4. No-one can tell what a deer can do before 3 at best.
Culling doesn't affect genetic potential in 99.99% of properties anywhere. Ever!
More things affect genetic expression than we can imagine...nutrition, date of birth, parasites , rut intensity, injury, stress ...and the list goes on. Unless you are overrun with bucks age and nutrition are always your friend.
I do cull mature bucks cause I have a lot of them, gives folks something to hunt and might keep a mature buck with less expression from killing another deer I like. But that doesn't happen until they are mature. And most of what wecall 'culls' would be a trophy to many.

NUTRITION, NUTRITION, NUTRITION Thats where focus is best served .

 

[Turkish]

Take these three deer. All are pretty young. The first two I want to grow and reach potential.
View attachment 60452View attachment 60453

Then there is the third one. Do y’all think deer that show poor genetics year one can grow into large bucks? Or is it better to harvest them allowing better genetics to proliferate?
View attachment 60454

No need to think or wonder. The science is clear and easy. You can choose to kill them to remove a consumer of your available groceries and maybe to remove a bully. However removing them will have no discernible impact on the gene pool. In a free range herd, it simply cannot.

 

[Mortenson]

Also, I think your first 2 pics are the same deer, probably a 3.5 yr old? Your last pic honestly looks like a yearling or a 2.5 yr old.

 

[bwoods11]

I like to take out a buck at age 4 or 5 if his rack is poor and/or he’s a bully ! This is mostly in Iowa. I don’t see that happen in Minnesota. That type of buck rarely survives to age 4.

 

[Catscratch]

What everyone else has said, not changing the gene pool.

Like Baker said, epigenetics might be expressed with nutritional and stress manipulation.

I think deer social interactions might be the biggest thing we can control. I've been contemplating a situation. There are 2 mature bucks on my property that hang out together. Both have large frames but one is a spindly 7pt and the other is an 8 with ok mass. I've considered trying to shoot the 7 pt to make room for another mature buck. My dilemma is that since these two deer hang out together so much that if one disappears that the other won't tolerate a new buck in his space. Hence creating a situation where I just have less mature bucks. The cool part is that these two bucks have taken over what was a traditional doe bedding area. Seriously, they moved into the bedding area and the does left. I'd never seen that before. I think shooting one of them might change the landscape on my place quite a bit. I wonder what I'll do?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

What everyone else has said, not changing the gene pool.

Like Baker said, epigenetics might be expressed with nutritional and stress manipulation.

I think deer social interactions might be the biggest thing we can control. I've been contemplating a situation. There are 2 mature bucks on my property that hang out together. Both have large frames but one is a spindly 7pt and the other is an 8 with ok mass. I've considered trying to shoot the 7 pt to make room for another mature buck. My dilemma is that since these two deer hang out together so much that if one disappears that the other won't tolerate a new buck in his space. Hence creating a situation where I just have less mature bucks. The cool part is that these two bucks have taken over what was a traditional doe bedding area. Seriously, they moved into the bedding area and the does left. I'd never seen that before. I think shooting one of them might change the landscape on my place quite a bit. I wonder what I'll do?

Let them grow old!!

 

[Hoytvectrix]

For those that were new transplants to this forum or even ones that were on the old QDMA forum, has this sentiment changed over time? I feel like it is only in the last few years that the consensus has shifted to culling not being very effective at improving antler genetics with free ranging deer. If this is a relatively recent shift in perspective, it is pretty exciting to think about the future deer hunting. Obviously dear study results are getting to the public, which should be helping hunting quality over time.

 

[SwampCat]

My experience - my deer show if they have promise at 3.5. If he aint got it at 3.5, he is on the hit list. We kill very few does - if any. We like to eat deer meat. We have a lot of younger bucks. We have to get our deer meat from somewhere.

 

[ng270]

Do y’all think deer that show poor genetics year one can grow into large bucks?

What is "large" to you?
I don't cull bucks, but if I did, I wouldn't consider "culling" 1.5 or 2.5 year olds because it's a total crap shoot.

At 1.5:


At 2.5:


And 3.5:


I don't know what he may have become because I couldn't let him walk two weeks after that last pic was taken. I am far from the trophy hunter that some of you folks are, and 14" 2s are not something I've seen much of, on the hoof.

 

[omicron1792]

Also, I think your first 2 pics are the same deer, probably a 3.5 yr old? Your last pic honestly looks like a yearling or a 2.5 yr old.

I have three very similar 8 points. Only way you can tell is one the antlers angle in anterior on one.

 

[omicron1792]

What is "large" to you?
I don't cull bucks, but if I did, I wouldn't consider "culling" 1.5 or 2.5 year olds because it's a total crap shoot.

At 1.5:
View attachment 60467

At 2.5:
View attachment 60468

And 3.5:
View attachment 60469

I don't know what he may have become because I couldn't let him walk two weeks after that last pic was taken. I am far from the trophy hunter that some of you folks are, and 14" 2s are not something I've seen much of, on the hoof.

I have watched these deer mature for last 4 years. I would say the odds of the deer I showed you turning into that are 0.01

 

[Mortenson]

I have watched these deer mature for last 4 years. I would say the odds of the deer I showed you turning into that are 0.01

If you've been watching that forkie for 4 years you need to mentor a hunter yesterday and get him killed!

 

[FarmerDan]

I am probably the village idiot here. But, if you are worried about culling for potential antler development why not cull the does who carry the traits leading to bucks with inferior genetic potential? Hmmmm....?

 

[omicron1792]

If you've been watching that forkie for 4 years you need to mentor a hunter yesterday and get him killed!

This is my stud I’m saving for a special occasion.


This one has really wide rack. I want him to grow and see what he becomes.


Probably have 6-8 8 points or better running around. So so much better than when I started in 2019.