So I was thinking...is buckwheat really "free" nitrogen? The seed I bought was way too expensive. It was $80 for 50lbs. I used 50lbs for my 2 acres. But I can buy 29-0-1 fertilizer at "The Walmart" for $28 that is good for 15,000 square feet. What am I missing? Of course the animals can't eat the fertilizer and the biomass it will leave behind is what I'm after. Just was thinking...

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Peas starting to make it through the thatch. And a little amazed at how much alfalfa is growing here as I haven't spread any in this area. Guess there's some good stuff in the seedbed too.
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From the picture on the right, I don't see alfalfa, I see black medic Medicago lupulina.
 
35 acre, i have not heard of buckwheat being free nitrogen. More of a soil conditioner and mining phosphorous.
 
I did a test plot (400 sq feet or so) of a field pea /buckwheat mix . Broadcast into corn stalks left from combining last year. Did this back in late April. No buckwheat came up but the field pea did? How bad of a farmer am I that I can't grow buck wheat??
Buckwheat is sensitive to frost. Your buckwheat likely sprouted and was later eliminated by frost. It also likes warm soil temps. Next time plant middle of May at the earliest.
 
So I was thinking...is buckwheat really "free" nitrogen? The seed I bought was way too expensive. It was $80 for 50lbs. I used 50lbs for my 2 acres. But I can buy 29-0-1 fertilizer at "The Walmart" for $28 that is good for 15,000 square feet. What am I missing? Of course the animals can't eat the fertilizer and the biomass it will leave behind is what I'm after. Just was thinking...

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Even with shipping a 50lb bag of buckwheat from Welter Seed will run you around $50. 50lbs for 2 acres is a bit light. Yes it's more expensive to plant than say oats, but it's a great summer forage in my area and an excellent soil builder at the same time.
 
We've just recently cleared an old field this last spring on our farm and I am looking at starting a throw and mow crop rotation on it. The area that was cleared was overtaken by Chinese privet. Initially it would be about a 1/2 acre plot as pictured below.
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Plan for this fall would be to broadcast a 50lb mix of 70% Wheat, 20% Oats, 5% Rye, 2% Crimson Clover (already have this mix).

Would I be better off
1) spraying then burning to establish the initial plot and broadcasting the day of the burn? or
2) Spraying, waiting 2 weeks, broadcasting and mowing the sprayed growth from the summer?

I would imagine there will be a lot of weeds as the ground in this area hasn't seen the sun in nearly 20 years. I also plan to pull a soil sample when ever I get back up that way to spray if not before. Below is a report for a sample pulled in 2015 in an area near the cleared portion (Lower fld).
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Assuming this plot gets established I will be looking and planting soybeans or another legume in spring to help with nitrogen fixation. Which would be best using the broadcast and mow method?
 
From the picture on the right, I don't see alfalfa, I see black medic Medicago lupulina.
Thanks for the correction. I thought it was the yellow flowered alfalfa. Just don't completely burst my bubble and tell me this little stuff with the purple flowers isn't young alfalfa.
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Thanks for the correction. I thought it was the yellow flowered alfalfa. Just don't completely burst my bubble and tell me this little stuff with the purple flowers isn't young alfalfa.
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None that I've ever seen.
 
So I was thinking...is buckwheat really "free" nitrogen? The seed I bought was way too expensive. It was $80 for 50lbs. I used 50lbs for my 2 acres. But I can buy 29-0-1 fertilizer at "The Walmart" for $28 that is good for 15,000 square feet. What am I missing? Of course the animals can't eat the fertilizer and the biomass it will leave behind is what I'm after. Just was thinking...

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Legumes produce N. Buckwheat is not a legume and doesn't produce nitrogen.

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Ok. Good to know. I was thinking buckwheat was a soil builder but more to do with "green manure" and nitrogen. Glad it's going to help out. Hopefully this plan ting will get me started on throw and mow. Plus I will plant it again next year to help keep building biomass. I look forward to seeing how it looks this weekend.

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So I was thinking...is buckwheat really "free" nitrogen? The seed I bought was way too expensive. It was $80 for 50lbs. I used 50lbs for my 2 acres. But I can buy 29-0-1 fertilizer at "The Walmart" for $28 that is good for 15,000 square feet. What am I missing? Of course the animals can't eat the fertilizer and the biomass it will leave behind is what I'm after. Just was thinking...

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Holy crap you got screwed on that price :emoji_fearful::emoji_fearful:
 
Holy crap you got screwed on that price :emoji_fearful::emoji_fearful:
No kidding. It was 1/2 that at a mill closer to my property but they weren't going to be open.

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Thanks for the reply, and maybe Yoder will chime in. I don't have high expectations and realize its going to take work and time to get a good plot. I'm going to take soil samples as soon as I move. I'm really looking forward to this, getting back to my country roots and out of the darn city. I have absolutely nothing and will have to buy equipment but with these methods you don't need as much equipment, which is great.

Thank Bill for pointing me to your post. It really depends on your specific soils. I'm not a fan of deep or regular tillage, but it has its place. I've been working on my Virginia Clay for 10 years now and I'm still not completely no-till. I'd say that min-till is still working best for me. Complete no-till is still my goal. First, lets start with compression. Clay can get compressed so badly that nothing will grow. I have reclaimed old logging decks from my pine farm. They would not even grow weeds when I started. The top soil, thin to start with for my soils was completely removed. Dozers and other heavy equipment had compressed the decks to the point nothing would grow. Here is how I reclaimed them:

1) I used a single shank sub-soiler on my DK45 to relieve the compression. This is a much better tool than a bottom plow. It does not turn the soil, it just cuts through it.

2) Once the compression was relieved I started to plant soil building crops. The good news is that these are great deer foods as well. If I start the reclamation in the spring, I start with buckwheat. I use a tiller on my tractor but set it very high. I don't want to get below 1" at most. Clay with low OM tends to crust. Water has a hard time penetrating the crust and so do plants. With my soils, buckwheat doesn't surface broadcast well, so after broadcasting it, I would turn the PTO off and drag the tiller over the field. The tines would "walk" over the soil making dimples and the rear door would drag a little dirt over the seed. It doesn't need much. Planting before a rain is always a bonus. Buckwheat is a 60 to 90 day crop. Deer use it but generally don't abuse it unless they have little else. It is very competitive. In my area in central VA, the last have of June is a good time to plant it. It will germinate at soil temps (taken between 0800 and 0900, not air temp) as low as 45 degrees but the optimal temp is 80 degrees. It germinates very quickly if you get rain and will outcompete most weeds. It is a 60 to 90 day crop. I have tried double cropping it in my area, but the first crop is always stunted compared to the second and I've found better ways to accomplish the same thing which you will see in #3 and #4

3) After the buckwheat (or if you start in the fall), I plant a Winter Rye (not ryegrass) based mix. I typically add about 10 lbs/ac crimson clover as well as 2-3lbs/ac Groundhog radish. And yes, you can plant GHR in August as long as you get rain. I've even planted it in September for deer, but if you want large tubers, planting in the middle of August works well in my area.

4) In the following spring, the WR and Crimson will come back. Deer won't use the WR much but the crimson acts as a reseeding annual in our area and deer will use it heavily in the spring. This eliminates the need to till twice to double crop buckwheat.

5) In the middle of June of the next year, I repeat the process starting with step 2. If the deck I start with is real bad, I'll repeat this for at least 2 full growing systems and move to step #6 in the third fall. If it is not that bad, I'll move to step #6 in the 2nd fall.

6) At this point, the field should support perennial clover. I like Durana for our general area and further south. It is slow to establish but once established it is drought resistant and very persistent compared to Ladino an even other improved clovers. So in this step, I plant a Winter Rye based mix again but add 10 lbs/ac Durana in place of the crimson clover.

7) This step is important to establishing the Durana. In the following spring, each time the Winter Rye hits about a foot or so, mow it back to 6". This releases the Durana slowly but keeps the WR alive and lets it die naturally. Don't use a grass selective herbicide to kill it. The WR will help keep weeds at bay while the Durana establishes itself. In subsequent years, I don't bother mowing the durana until right before the season. The field will look like weeds during the summer, but mowing them right before the cool evenings set in come late September is enough to favor the Durana. It bounces back strong in the fall. You can mow it and use herbicides to make it look pretty if you want, but I haven't found this to benefit deer and just takes time and costs money.

8) From there I manage this as a perennial clover field. The durana will last well over 5 years. When the durana is done, the field should support just about anything. Be sure to follow the clover with an N seeking crop for the first rotation.

I'm slowly building OM in most of my fields. I use a small 4' kasco no-till versa-drill to drill corn and beans for summer in my feeding fields but I still need to run my tiller set very high over them to break up crusting before I drill.

Hope this helps,

Jack
 
Thanks Jack for the detailed reply. I am moving to Chase City, not sure how far that is from you. I was initially going to use a subsoiler because of the compaction and based on what you say will go back to that plan. I'm not sure how this fall is going to work out as we are moving mid august and will be settling in for I am sure a month before I can get started. I guess if nothing else, should I spray, then subsoil and let it sit for the winter, or leave it and start in the spring? Thanks so much for the info and I'm sure I will be picking your brain in the future.
Owen
 
Thanks Jack for the detailed reply. I am moving to Chase City, not sure how far that is from you. I was initially going to use a subsoiler because of the compaction and based on what you say will go back to that plan. I'm not sure how this fall is going to work out as we are moving mid august and will be settling in for I am sure a month before I can get started. I guess if nothing else, should I spray, then subsoil and let it sit for the winter, or leave it and start in the spring? Thanks so much for the info and I'm sure I will be picking your brain in the future.
Owen

I'd plant it this fall. You will get benefit from the WR and Crimson. You can easily plant this mix through the end of September. You won't get large tubers from the radish but deer will still hit the tops. You can skip it from the mix if you don't think it is worth it with small tubers.

My place is in the middle of the state near Charlottesville. There will be differences in climate between us, but much will be similar.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I may not have equipment this fall. Our sale of our house in Charleston is proving quite challenging. We move to Va on Aug 8, but if our house here isn't sold then I will not have play money for equipment and may have to postpone planting to the spring. I do have access to a Cub but you can't subsoil with that little tractor, the most I would be able to do is lightly disc, broadcast and cover which I guess is better than another winter of laying fallow.
 
So I was thinking...is buckwheat really "free" nitrogen? The seed I bought was way too expensive. It was $80 for 50lbs. I used 50lbs for my 2 acres. But I can buy 29-0-1 fertilizer at "The Walmart" for $28 that is good for 15,000 square feet. What am I missing? Of course the animals can't eat the fertilizer and the biomass it will leave behind is what I'm after. Just was thinking...

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35 15,000 sq ft is roughly only 1/3 of an acre. You mention 2 acres. You would need enough fertilizer for a little over 87,000 sq ft. You would need 6 bags of that fertilizer to cover your plot. That would be 150 lbs an acre and on the light side for poor soil. Also there must be Co-Op or a AG store around you somewhere. I just paid $13 per 50lb bag of 6-24-24. I think you might also find 46-0-0 cheaper than Walmart fertilizers.
 
Looks like my switchgrass was a failure for this year at least. This is about one acre. You can see I had pretty good weed control. Just now starting to get a few things growing. I followed most of Paul's advice to a T with the exception of applying Atrizine. I just couldn't find anyone to apply it. I did use simizine though. Not exactly sure what happened but makes me pause for the 6 acres I want to plant next year.

I will broadcast WR, WW, Oats and Peas into this area about August 15th unless rain says otherwise. I will drag then cultipack. I see some of you planting brassicas in July. That seems early to me but I think it's because of my soil won't support them without a stready dose of rain.
 

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Throw-n-mow sunflowers and pumpkins doing pretty well so far. It sure makes a difference if a seed isn't under thatch.
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Here is last years Brassica plot on September 21st. It grew like wild fire. I didn't get much use on it though. I put down way too much seed and had very little nutrients in the soil. I did put down 300 lbs of 19-19-19 but we had a lot of rain. I think most of it was leached away. Plot is just over 3/4 of an acre. I have posted photos of this plot before on this thread and it's going to throw and mow this year. I put down 200 lbs of 6-24-24 a few weeks ago. I will be getting a soil sample in the next few weeks.

I will amend the soil with the recommendations then broadcasting WR, Oats, Peas, clover, and radish. It will be my first throw and mow. Just to the west of this plot will be a 2 acre destination plot surrounded by 6 acres of switch. Both plots are surrounded by good bedding.
 

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