The Throw n’ Mow Method

[WI hunter]

I planted buckwheat in norther Door County last year on the 21st with great results in 2 small plots, so with the upcoming forecast I would think you should be fine. And I really hope so because I put some in in southeastern Portage county Wednesday before the good rain as well!

 

[StickTime]

been meaning to add some pics of one of my T&M Plots...last spring was the first time this plot had been mowed in at least 6 years. mowed it then sprayed with GLY, planted BW and Sunflowers, mowed it again in August and planted WW, clover and PTT. I added one bag of 10-10-10 and a few bags of soluble lime last fall. The first photo is what it looked like last spring, the second photo was taken a few days after I mowed the WW.

 

[Tap]

Okay, looking for some opinions. Kind of a different version of T&M. I've seen info on some ag websites where they broadcast seed into a standing cover crop (mostly cereal rye or oats) then just use a cultipacker to roll over everything. The idea is to pack the seed for good soil contact and, at the same time, lay down the cover crop to hold moisture and protect seed from birds, erosion, etc.

The plot that I'm planting is now very healthy cereal rye/clover mix with some weeds mixed in...lots of plantain, chickweed, and a few others I haven't identified. I'm planting an annual mixture of sunflowers, peas, faba beans a little sun hemp, maybe throw a little other stuff in there, too.
My question... I'm thinking of seeding the mixture 1st, then spraying gly with the sprayer mounted to my front end loader while pulling my cultipacker. I'm thinking that pulling the cultipacker over the still wet herbicide will actually insure a more thorough glyphosate coverage while packing the seed to soil... (seems like I always get the best gly kill where the tractor tire run over the herbicide).

The rye, etc will doubly hold soil moisture...it'll hold moisture as it takes time to die and dry and it will also act as mulch. I'm thinking I should get great germination with this approach while protecting seed from all the turkeys, crows, etc.

Have any of you guys ever sprayed and rolled cover crops and weeds in one pass? If I just throw and mow, I won't be addressing the unwanted weeds. I really don't care if I get a good kill on the clover, but the rye and weeds need killed.
Seems like a bit of a time and fuel saver if it works.
Thoughts?
Thanks.

 

[scott44]

Okay, looking for some opinions. Kind of a different version of T&M. I've seen info on some ag websites where they broadcast seed into a standing cover crop (mostly cereal rye or oats) then just use a cultipacker to roll over everything. The idea is to pack the seed for good soil contact and, at the same time, lay down the cover crop to hold moisture and protect seed from birds, erosion, etc.

The plot that I'm planting is now very healthy cereal rye/clover mix with some weeds mixed in...lots of plantain, chickweed, and a few others I haven't identified. I'm planting an annual mixture of sunflowers, peas, faba beans a little sun hemp, maybe throw a little other stuff in there, too.
My question... I'm thinking of seeding the mixture 1st, then spraying gly with the sprayer mounted to my front end loader while pulling my cultipacker. I'm thinking that pulling the cultipacker over the still wet herbicide will actually insure a more thorough glyphosate coverage while packing the seed to soil... (seems like I always get the best gly kill where the tractor tire run over the herbicide).

The rye, etc will doubly hold soil moisture...it'll hold moisture as it takes time to die and dry and it will also act as mulch. I'm thinking I should get great germination with this approach while protecting seed from all the turkeys, crows, etc.

Have any of you guys ever sprayed and rolled cover crops and weeds in one pass? If I just throw and mow, I won't be addressing the unwanted weeds. I really don't care if I get a good kill on the clover, but the rye and weeds need killed.
Seems like a bit of a time and fuel saver if it works.
Thoughts?
Thanks.

I do it every year when going into my brassicas from last years rye, you will get a pretty good burn down but you will not get everything but I'm ok with that. Be patient it will take longer than a tilled plot but it will turn out good in the end.

 

[Tap]

BTW, this is one of the weeds in the plot. I'm seeing a fair amount of this weed so far this spring. It does get a little bit of deer use. I see some of it browsed.
What is it?

 

[Tap]

I do it every year when going into my brassicas from last years rye, you will get a pretty good burn down but you will not get everything but I'm ok with that. Be patient it will take longer than a tilled plot but it will turn out good in the end.

Thanks Scott!
Do you notice a difference in herbicide effectiveness when rolling vs not rolling?
I'm also liking the thought of being able to really fine tune the sprayer height with it mounted on the front loader. I'll be able to watch where the spray is going much better, too. Less catch of accidentally spraying stuff I don't want to.

 

[Catscratch]

Tap, I think your plan will work great. You've basically designed a rig that does everything in two pass... that I do in three passes.

 

[scott44]

Thanks Scott!
Do you notice a difference in herbicide effectiveness when rolling vs not rolling?
I'm also liking the thought of being able to really fine tune the sprayer height with it mounted on the front loader. I'll be able to watch where the spray is going much better, too. Less catch of accidentally spraying stuff I don't want to.

I used to mow, spray and till it in, I think with my set up I don't get alot of the stuff down by the ground but in my case most of the plants growing down there are clovers from the LC cereal grain mix. I was thinking of trying to front mount a seeder on the quad and truly do it all in one pass, right now I use a bag seeder and walk/broadcast it before I roll it down.

 

[Barndog56]

Winter rye throw and mow from fall quickly outpacing the deer appetite.

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[bueller]

I spray and drag but not in the same pass. Same principle though. I spray first to ensure the best coverage. Then I broadcast into the standing crop. Next I broadcast fertilizer all the while packing down my seed with the ATV tires. Then I knock the standing crop down with a drag covering the seed and again packing with the ATV tires. Works great for me.

 

[pointer]

Okay, looking for some opinions. Kind of a different version of T&M. I've seen info on some ag websites where they broadcast seed into a standing cover crop (mostly cereal rye or oats) then just use a cultipacker to roll over everything. The idea is to pack the seed for good soil contact and, at the same time, lay down the cover crop to hold moisture and protect seed from birds, erosion, etc.

The plot that I'm planting is now very healthy cereal rye/clover mix with some weeds mixed in...lots of plantain, chickweed, and a few others I haven't identified. I'm planting an annual mixture of sunflowers, peas, faba beans a little sun hemp, maybe throw a little other stuff in there, too.
My question... I'm thinking of seeding the mixture 1st, then spraying gly with the sprayer mounted to my front end loader while pulling my cultipacker. I'm thinking that pulling the cultipacker over the still wet herbicide will actually insure a more thorough glyphosate coverage while packing the seed to soil... (seems like I always get the best gly kill where the tractor tire run over the herbicide).

The rye, etc will doubly hold soil moisture...it'll hold moisture as it takes time to die and dry and it will also act as mulch. I'm thinking I should get great germination with this approach while protecting seed from all the turkeys, crows, etc.

Have any of you guys ever sprayed and rolled cover crops and weeds in one pass? If I just throw and mow, I won't be addressing the unwanted weeds. I really don't care if I get a good kill on the clover, but the rye and weeds need killed.
Seems like a bit of a time and fuel saver if it works.
Thoughts?
Thanks.

Because things got away from me last year, I did something similar. The weeds had taken over my plots, to the tune of mostly weeds and over 5' tall. I broadcast the seed, cultipacked then sprayed. It took some time for it to get going, but I was pretty happy with it. Of note, this was labor day weekend, so for some of those plants the spraying was really needed as they were nearly done for the year already.

 

[Barndog56]

In March I frost seeded red and crimson clovers into some thin spots in my perennial clover/alfalfa plot. Didn't realize it would take quite this long to see results, but looking good now.

 

[StickTime]

i posted these in my gly thread as well. BW and Sunflowers

 

[Ben Glantz]

In March I frost seeded red and crimson clovers into some thin spots in my perennial clover/alfalfa plot. Didn't realize it would take quite this long to see results, but looking good now.
View attachment 13150

My clover has also been fairly slow to grow. I frost seeded a couple existing plots and planted a new plot in April. I think the cooler and wet weather has slowed the clover down

 

[Rit]

So I have been reading for days about this throw n mow method. I have read all the threads on various forums and watched all the videos. Very interested in trying this out this year. I have some very poor soil to start with. I grew a good stand of brassicas/clover last year from a germination stand point but the deer hardly touched it. I had a ton of insect damage and a serious lack of nutrients. I did have a soil test done and OM was very low and all the nutrients levels were way off. My PH was 7.3 but I live on a limestone ridge. I even added sulfur in an attempt to lower it but I sense that was an effort in futility. I also added 300 lbs of 19-19-19 but we had good rains so I feel it was leached away.

My soil is a very thin layer of topsoil composed of rocks and limestone. You can't really get a shovel in the ground without hitting rock after an inch or so. It is very droughty and well drained. Last year during planting I had perfect rain for about 3 weeks but soon after the good rains stopped my plot really went down hill. As of today I have clover, ragweed, crabgrass, some other broadleaf weeds, golden rod, chicory, and volunteer brassicas growing in the plot. Some of those are 4' tall. I have some bare soil but not much. I initially was going to broadcast buckwheat, fertilize, then mow but my fear is the rain will stop and I won't get enough biomass to have a good fall plot.

I think in late summer the plan will be to spray, broadcast, fertilize, then mow or cultipack maybe even both. I am leaning towards a mixture of rye, triticale, oats, clover, with some brassicas. Does this sound like I am heading down the correct path? This particular plot is 1 acre. Next spring it expands to 3.5 acres. I would love to have a no-till drill but not sure I can justify the cost for 3.5 acres of deer food. I am in NW Ohio if that matters. I figure this method can work anywhere.

 

[nchunter1989]

So I have been reading for days about this throw n mow method. I have read all the threads on various forums and watched all the videos. Very interested in trying this out this year. I have some very poor soil to start with. I grew a good stand of brassicas/clover last year from a germination stand point but the deer hardly touched it. I had a ton of insect damage and a serious lack of nutrients. I did have a soil test done and OM was very low and all the nutrients levels were way off. My PH was 7.3 but I live on a limestone ridge. I even added sulfur in an attempt to lower it but I sense that was an effort in futility. I also added 300 lbs of 19-19-19 but we had good rains so I feel it was leached away.

My soil is a very thin layer of topsoil composed of rocks and limestone. You can't really get a shovel in the ground without hitting rock after an inch or so. It is very droughty and well drained. Last year during planting I had perfect rain for about 3 weeks but soon after the good rains stopped my plot really went down hill. As of today I have clover, ragweed, crabgrass, some other broadleaf weeds, golden rod, chicory, and volunteer brassicas growing in the plot. Some of those are 4' tall. I have some bare soil but not much. I initially was going to broadcast buckwheat, fertilize, then mow but my fear is the rain will stop and I won't get enough biomass to have a good fall plot.

I think in late summer the plan will be to spray, broadcast, fertilize, then mow or cultipack maybe even both. I am leaning towards a mixture of rye, triticale, oats, clover, with some brassicas. Does this sound like I am heading down the correct path? This particular plot is 1 acre. Next spring it expands to 3.5 acres. I would love to have a no-till drill but not sure I can justify the cost for 3.5 acres of deer food. I am in NW Ohio if that matters. I figure this method can work anywhere.

Check out Grant Woods @ growingdeerTv. This spring he is covering food plots. A lot of the same issues you are dealing with, Grant covers. He has planted rye on pretty bad soil. No fert, just no till.Rye & wheat would help with OM & break up that hard soil.


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[Crimson n' Camo]

So I have been reading for days about this throw n mow method. I have read all the threads on various forums and watched all the videos. Very interested in trying this out this year. I have some very poor soil to start with. I grew a good stand of brassicas/clover last year from a germination stand point but the deer hardly touched it. I had a ton of insect damage and a serious lack of nutrients. I did have a soil test done and OM was very low and all the nutrients levels were way off. My PH was 7.3 but I live on a limestone ridge. I even added sulfur in an attempt to lower it but I sense that was an effort in futility. I also added 300 lbs of 19-19-19 but we had good rains so I feel it was leached away.

My soil is a very thin layer of topsoil composed of rocks and limestone. You can't really get a shovel in the ground without hitting rock after an inch or so. It is very droughty and well drained. Last year during planting I had perfect rain for about 3 weeks but soon after the good rains stopped my plot really went down hill. As of today I have clover, ragweed, crabgrass, some other broadleaf weeds, golden rod, chicory, and volunteer brassicas growing in the plot. Some of those are 4' tall. I have some bare soil but not much. I initially was going to broadcast buckwheat, fertilize, then mow but my fear is the rain will stop and I won't get enough biomass to have a good fall plot.

I think in late summer the plan will be to spray, broadcast, fertilize, then mow or cultipack maybe even both. I am leaning towards a mixture of rye, triticale, oats, clover, with some brassicas. Does this sound like I am heading down the correct path? This particular plot is 1 acre. Next spring it expands to 3.5 acres. I would love to have a no-till drill but not sure I can justify the cost for 3.5 acres of deer food. I am in NW Ohio if that matters. I figure this method can work anywhere.

I would just grow what you have started in the plots now. It's more important right now that you start putting roots in the ground and producing biomass instead of worrying about what specific plants accomplishes that task. The most important part it to get it done....roots carving new paths into the soil profile, biomass produced above ground......Add P&K according to soil test and then apply N to boost biomass yield. Some folks with sandy soil may want to apply N in small but more frequent doses.

 

[Rit]

I would just grow what you have started in the plots now. It's more important right now that you start putting roots in the ground and producing biomass instead of worrying about what specific plants accomplishes that task. The most important part it to get it done....roots carving new paths into the soil profile, biomass produced above ground......Add P&K according to soil test and then apply N to boost biomass yield. Some folks with sandy soil may want to apply N in small but more frequent doses.

I have the urge to mow it now some of those brassica volunteers are 5' high and the bottom leaves are yellowing and dying off. There is also clovers that are nearing 12". Any thoughts on that?

I will be sending out a soil sample on Monday and will amend with half now and half again later in the summer. It hasn't rained for about 10 days and noticeably cracks are forming and I have a good dry crust starting.

I will plant the fall plot around Mid to late August mostly with Rye grain. I found a 6' roller Crimper at a good price any thoughts on how well that could be incorporated into this method for terminating cover crops? Thx for the replys.

 

[nchunter1989]

I have the urge to mow it now some of those brassica volunteers are 5' high and the bottom leaves are yellowing and dying off. There is also clovers that are nearing 12". Any thoughts on that?

I will be sending out a soil sample on Monday and will amend with half now and half again later in the summer. It hasn't rained for about 10 days and noticeably cracks are forming and I have a good dry crust starting.

I will plant the fall plot around Mid to late August mostly with Rye grain. I found a 6' roller Crimper at a good price any thoughts on how well that could be incorporated into this method for terminating cover crops? Thx for the replys.

Again- Check out Grant Woods's site.. or just watch the last 4 or 5 vids on youtube. All he does is crimp, no till soybeans into the duff & then broadcast rye or Broadside blend into the beans later into the summer/early fall.

 

[Rit]

Again- Check out Grant Woods's site.. or just watch the last 4 or 5 vids on youtube. All he does is crimp, no till soybeans into the duff & then broadcast rye or Broadside blend into the beans later into the summer/early fall.

Thanks for the response. Not sure if you caught it but in my first post I mentioned I don't have a grain drill and that I have already watched all the videos, read these threads (even the two 20 pages threads).

I like what Grant has to say but our worlds are really different. He has an unlimited budget, sponsors etc I think I even recall reading where they trucked in loads and loads of antler dirt.

So really what I was looking for was opinions from folks that have been using this for awhile. Obviously throw and crimp is less violent than throw and mow. Sure it will terminate the cover crop but will it be enough action to get the seed where it needs to be? I have a cultipacker so I can probably get away with a throw mow and roll method and may not need a Crimper at all. But as mentioned I found a good price one and was just curious was people thought.