The Sweet Clover Thread

[Foggy47]

The wildlife can normally mop up the white oak acorns in about a week in a normal year. I bet they can’t get it done in 6 weeks for what’s out there this year.

Should make the food plots go a hell of a lot further.


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Seeing that around my place too. Lots of deer along the sides of my best food plots....scarfing up acorns from those trees along the edge. Then a plot treat to wash 'em down. Hang in there....better days ahead. You need me to put some salt on their tails? or maybe some peanut butter on you lip?.....grin. Chute 'em.

 

[Wild Thing]

I don't understand the bear and clover connection either. I have a 1 acre white clover plot in the back of my property that get frequented by bears a lot. They bent up one of my cages, used their bodies as steam rollers to flatten my plot, and they shit everywhere. At the same time, I don't see much evidence of them eating any of it. Only other thing I could think is maybe they're coming out to eat bugs in the clover. There are tons of bugs out there.

The bears here (Upper Michigan) love both my clovers and alfalfa. Unfortunately, they love tearing down my apple trees as well.

 

[Wild Thing]

I wouldn’t sweat the persistence. You’ve got the mower to deal with that. I took some new pics today again. I was out looking around to see if any brassicas or sorghums have shown up. I haven’t found any.

But, for just mowing and throwing in more rye and barley, this is gonna be a magnet this fall. Best plot I’ve got.

I’m getting some flowers from chicory that I’m guessing got pushed over and not cut.

I wish I could go back and kick myself right in the pills when I thought hairy vetch was a good idea. That crap is coming in faster than the military aged men from hostile nations pouring over our southern border.

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Wow! You do have a lot of Hairy Vetch coming in. I have been planting HV for several years now and have not experienced that issue. The difference maybe is that I only plant it at 2#/acre and I usually spray my cover crops, at least every other year. HV isn't the best deer forage but it does fix a lot of N in the soil so I will continue to add a little to my cover crop mixes.

This is the most Hairy Vetch I have seen in any of my cover crops (June) and that was from a year when I planted it at 3#/acre. I mowed this plot on August 7th, I believe, and did not spray it. I got a nice free plot of rye, clovers and a little HV after mowing but the vetch still was not overwhelming as you have.


This is the same plot on August 30th - 3 weeks after mowing and there still is very little vetch showing. Should have added some Chicory to the mix as you have done SD. l did include chicory in the mix this year. I could have probably kept this plot going perennially but I terminated this the next July and planted brassicas which utilized the banked N from the Hairy Vetch and clovers.


Lots of ways to skin the cat. Hopefully you can get your plots beyond the excess Hairy Vetch.

 

[Foggy47]

I've been home with a summer cold for a few days.....and had some time to do a little research on YSW and watch a few videos.....trying to keep my eyes open on this stuff. It's an interesting crop and most everyone agrees that it puts out lots of biomass and fixes lots of nitrogen for future crops. "Before the synthetic fertilizers were available (back in the 40's) farmers grew sweet clover to provide all the nitrogen needed for a corn crop". I jumped aboard this year after quickly reading a bit about it and seeing SD's success with it and doing minimal research at that time.

Seems that it can be controlled pretty well if mowed before the seeds harden in the second year (if I want "out" of the YSC going forward).....and if left to go to seed it will continue to re-seed itself for a long time to come. Not 100% sure where I am at today on keeping it's presence in my plots.....but I now have seeded it in about 6 acres of my plots. It's gonna make allot of biomass to deal with. Really high, thick, cover for deer too. Deep roots scavenge lots of nutrients and quite drought tolerant too. Lots of farmers report deer bedding in it. Wonder how long it would stand as a screen into fall? Could leave some strips to divide the plots a bit?

The following is some good discussion from another forum on the attibutes.

Yellow Blossom Sweet Clover

After reading and researching about sweet clovers I decided to experiment with yellow blossom sweet clover and overseeded a field that had a nice stand of well-established ladino clover growing for several years. I like the soil building properties, and the wildlife benefits, but now I'm almost...

deerhunterforum.com

It appears that it can be roller crimped with a fair level of success. Anyone have some experience with this? I have a Goliath Roller Crimper and a flail mower to tackle the mass this is likely to bring. Lots of N and green manure to deal with.

Damn the torpedos.....full steam ahead!

 

[SD51555]

Wow! You do have a lot of Hairy Vetch coming in. I have been planting HV for several years now and have not experienced that issue. The difference maybe is that I only plant it at 2#/acre and I usually spray my cover crops, at least every other year. HV isn't the best deer forage but it does fix a lot of N in the soil so I will continue to add a little to my cover crop mixes.

This is the most Hairy Vetch I have seen in any of my cover crops (June) and that was from a year when I planted it at 3#/acre. I mowed this plot on August 7th, I believe, and did not spray it. I got a nice free plot of rye, clovers and a little HV after mowing but the vetch still was not overwhelming as you have.
View attachment 56922

This is the same plot on August 30th - 3 weeks after mowing and there still is very little vetch showing. Should have added some Chicory to the mix as you have done SD. l did include chicory in the mix this year. I could have probably kept this plot going perennially but I terminated this the next July and planted brassicas which utilized the banked N from the Hairy Vetch and clovers.
View attachment 56923

Lots of ways to skin the cat. Hopefully you can get your plots beyond the excess Hairy Vetch.

I don't know what it is. I bet I put a pint of HV in my 1/4 plot, and it's just started to explode where it came up. If the HV doesn't make the sweet clover lodge next year, I may change my tune. It was something to see, how dark it was underneath the HV/SC/rye combination. There was zero light penetration below 4' above ground.

 

[Brian662]

Thoroughly impressed by your week to week updates and how well your plot looks SD. I have a few questions.

How did you plant your fall plots before mowing?

Do you worry the cereal rye seed head is viable and will produce hundreds of lbs/acre of seed for your other crops to compete with?

 

[Foggy47]

I'm wondering if you would even want to plant cereal rye after the first year of growth for the sweet clover? The biomass is just incredible on that sweet clover on the second year. (tho there are fall and spring benefits on the cereal rye). I think in SD's locale (so far north) that him cutting that rye in late July / Early August....that not much of that rye seed is viable yet. I"m about 30 miles south of his land......and my rye is slow to become viable seed. But....let's wait for his take.

 

[SD51555]

Thoroughly impressed by your week to week updates and how well your plot looks SD. I have a few questions.

How did you plant your fall plots before mowing?

Do you worry the cereal rye seed head is viable and will produce hundreds of lbs/acre of seed for your other crops to compete with?

This plot was new last year. It was solid quack grass, so I kept it mowed for about 2 months, then let it grow for two more weeks, sprayed it, waited two weeks and had the neighbor till it up. I went right behind him and broadcasted everything and ran the packer over it.

Not worried about the rye over populating. It may have been viable this year. It actually shelled out when I was mowing. I’ve certainly got a boat lid of cereals, so I think it did take. There’s boat loss of clover and chicory way ahead of the rye anyway, and it’ll thin itself next spring.

I think my sweet clover was viable too, so next year I’m probably not gonna add any at all just to see what happens.


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[SD51555]

I'm wondering if you would even want to plant cereal rye after the first year of growth for the sweet clover? The biomass is just incredible on that sweet clover on the second year. (tho there are fall and spring benefits on the cereal rye). I think in SD's locale (so far north) that him cutting that rye in late July / Early August....that not much of that rye seed is viable yet. I"m about 30 miles south of his land......and my rye is slow to become viable seed. But....let's wait for his take.

It’s still not enough biomass for my liking. It burns me that I couldn’t spread the duff better. I’ve still got some tiny spots where duff piled up, and too much space where the duff never reached. I wanna try rolling it next year.


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[Brian662]

This plot was new last year. It was solid quack grass, so I kept it mowed for about 2 months, then let it grow for two more weeks, sprayed it, waited two weeks and had the neighbor till it up. I went right behind him and broadcasted everything and ran the packer over it.

Not worried about the rye over populating. It may have been viable this year. It actually shelled out when I was mowing. I’ve certainly got a boat lid of cereals, so I think it did take. There’s boat loss of clover and chicory way ahead of the rye anyway, and it’ll thin itself next spring.

I think my sweet clover was viable too, so next year I’m probably not gonna add any at all just to see what happens.


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My question about planting was about this fall. You showed multiple pics where the ysc was 5-6' tall, did you just run a bag spreader through before mowing or was there a different method?

 

[SD51555]

My question about planting was about this fall. You showed multiple pics where the ysc was 5-6' tall, did you just run a bag spreader through before mowing or was there a different method?

Oh!

I ran my wheeler thru it first to create a single loop walking path. That stuff was 7’ tall and all tangled together. I then walked that loop with my blower seeder and shot the small seeds out over the top. My blower can reach about 25’ from the end of the chute.

Then I walked that same loop and broadcast a barley/rye/sorghum/sorghum blend by hand. Then mowed it all down on top of the seed with a billy goat mower.


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[omicron1792]

Thoroughly impressed by your week to week updates and how well your plot looks SD. I have a few questions.

How did you plant your fall plots before mowing?

Do you worry the cereal rye seed head is viable and will produce hundreds of lbs/acre of seed for your other crops to compete with?

I’m convinced that story came from seed companies wanting to sell you more seed. Someone that plants yearly in fall, why would you not want all the volunteer rye you can get?! Haha

 

[Foggy47]

I’m convinced that story came from seed companies wanting to sell you more seed. Someone that plants yearly in fall, why would you not want all the volunteer rye you can get?! Haha

I've often read the same thing......and even "our hero" Dr. Grant Woods has said we would have too much volunteer rye if left go to seed. Who's right? Was he just selling Goliath Crimpers? Same goes for the seeds on that Yellow Sweet Clover. I have concerns with dealing with all that mass. I had lots of wrapping issues in the past when trying to run my tiller in a good stand of oats......tho my rotary cutter took it down. Hopefully my flail mower will take out that wiry-looking yellow sweet clover. Gonna find out.

 

[Foggy47]

Doing a little surfing turned up this SARE review of YSC. Interesting read....lots of details.

Sweet Clovers - SARE

Sweet Clovers Yellow sweetclover (Melilotus officinalis) White sweetclover (M. alba) Also called: HUBAM (actually a cultivar of annual white sweetclover) Type: biennial, summer annual or winter annual legume Roles: soil builder, fertility source, subsoil aerator, weed suppressor, erosion...

www.sare.org

 

[omicron1792]

Craig woods likes to sell seeds! And crimpers. And drills.

Once I get my soil healthy, I’m gonna start trying some once a year planting. Gonna let rye, grains, and clover all go to seed and run course. Plant in fall and cut it all down on top. See how low I can get on seed.

Crimson and Native seen to be able to use like 50lbs of grain and 5-10 pounds of clover a year, cut on top of seed, and it looks like a picture.

 

[Barndog56]

I'm cheap so I like free seed. Actually, that's a lie. I'm poor so I LOVE free seed. If at all possible I wait to mow things like red clover, buckwheat, and rye, until after they've set seed. Never have I looked at my plot and thought I had too many volunteers growing.

My garden often becomes a jungle as I have lots of sunflowers, tomatoes, dill, or potatoes coming up on their own. They usually make very strong plants. And I've never seen any evidence of them hindering the nearby plants that I put there intentionally.

 

[SD51555]

Craig woods likes to sell seeds! And crimpers. And drills.

Once I get my soil healthy, I’m gonna start trying some once a year planting. Gonna let rye, grains, and clover all go to seed and run course. Plant in fall and cut it all down on top. See how low I can get on seed.

Crimson and Native seen to be able to use like 50lbs of grain and 5-10 pounds of clover a year, cut on top of seed, and it looks like a picture.

That’s where I’m at. I’m trying to take as many steps and costs out of the equation as possible while still maintaining top yields and total synergy with the soil so I don’t touch off a weed apocalypse.


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[SD51555]

Doing a little surfing turned up this SARE review of YSC. Interesting read....lots of details.

Sweet Clovers - SARE

Sweet Clovers Yellow sweetclover (Melilotus officinalis) White sweetclover (M. alba) Also called: HUBAM (actually a cultivar of annual white sweetclover) Type: biennial, summer annual or winter annual legume Roles: soil builder, fertility source, subsoil aerator, weed suppressor, erosion...

www.sare.org

Didn’t you buy that book? If you haven’t, I would. Tons of deep dive facts on cover crops (we call them deer forages). It’s also free online, but when it comes to knowledge, I like to have hard copies I’m case we devolve to book burning and thinking men have periods.


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[Foggy47]

Didn’t you buy that book? If you haven’t, I would. Tons of deep dive facts on cover crops (we call them deer forages). It’s also free online, but when it comes to knowledge, I like to have hard copies I’m case we devolve to book burning and thinking men have periods.


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I did buy the book.....but have not read too much of it.

Edit: Kinda had forgotten about that SARE book.....was looking for it this afternoon......and it appears I left it down in OZ. I got issues.

 

[bueller]

I've never had too much volunteer rye and I let it go to seed every year. In fact if I don't put the seeds down to the ground I get very few volunteers. We all know the turkeys love the seed heads but I'm convinced the deer nip them off as well after they mature.