The most famous thistle patch in MN

[Telemark]

Would this hypothetical "theory" work on teasel too?

Interesting. I just now learned what all those things are. There's a field in Montgomery county that has a corner overrun with that stuff. I never knew what it was until now. It would be interesting to know the most effective way to get rid of it.

 

[SD51555]

No, it's as wet as ever this year. That may be the problem. It could be marsh thistle.

I’d try to get a solid ID first. Grab some pics and post them up.


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[bwoods11]

I spend hours mowing thistle in Minnesota. This year was one of the worst ever for thistle, the conditions were ideal for this noxious weed !

 

[jsasker007]

I spend hours mowing thistle in Minnesota. This year was one of the worst ever for thistle, the conditions were ideal for this noxious weed !

Had it bad here too this year. Normally would be in a drought right about now but my property is pretty wet and we're still getting regular rains. Great year for growing grass. Sick of mowing.

 

[SD51555]

Would this hypothetical "theory" work on teasel too?

I’ve never heard of that. If it’s not in the cirsium family, I don’t know what to think. It took a very long time to find the nitty gritty on thistle. Odds are good that info doesn’t exist.


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[4wanderingeyes]

I have had some luck on letting it grow, then right before the flower starts to dry, mow it down. Let it use up all of its stored energy growing, then right before it throws seed, cut it down. My thistle patch has been getting less and ledd the last couple years by doing this.

 

[SD51555]

One more week to let the thistle work. It’s getting seeded (winter trit, chicory, plantain, flax, jap millet, yellow sweet clover, alfalfa, BES, alfalfa, rape, balansa) some gypsum, and it’s getting rolled flat next weekend.

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[Foggy47]

 

[SD51555]

View attachment 67640

Patience grasshopper. The magic is happening now. Canada thistle roots penetrate 6-25’ deep where they are needed. This is what I’m wanting from this patch, deep fiber and lots of root channels. They’re drilling as we speak.

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[tooln]

Damn SD the shit you don't come up with is amazing.

 

[Foggy47]

Damn SD the shit you don't come up with is amazing.

You can't say he doesn't think "out of the box".

 

[SD51555]

Damn SD the shit you don't come up with is amazing.

I’ve spent 22 years learning lots of lessons the hard way. A few gems have emerged from all those hard lessons.

This was a spot in my north plot that had a Canada thistle patch come and go. The thistle is long gone and it’s working now. I’ve gotta move the grass out now and get it going on something better.

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[TreeDaddy]

I’ve spent 22 years learning lots of lessons the hard way. A few gems have emerged from all those hard lessons.

This was a spot in my north plot that had a Canada thistle patch come and go. The thistle is long gone and it’s working now. I’ve gotta move the grass out now and get it going on something better.

Perhaps you could write up a top ten list of gems to spare the rest of us from a few hard lessons

bill

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[SD51555]

The deed has been completed. I forgot to get gypsum, so I’ll have to head out next weekend once more. I blew the small seeds in last weekend. I threw forage oats in today and gave it the press.

I think the seed bank is recharged now. There was seed flying all over when I smushed this.

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[Ikeman]

Good to know about thistle burning itself out. now, if you have suggestions for controlling cocklebur….


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[SD51555]

Good to know about thistle burning itself out. now, if you have suggestions for controlling cocklebur….


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Hit it with a hot rate of gypsum and don't spray it. flip it to rye/sweetclover/chicory etc.

Change the minerals and change the actions, you change the outcome.

 

[farmlegend]

Great stuff.

Am I understanding this right? If you have a canada thistle infestation problem (a pretty damn common thing), if you simply do not disturb the thistle for two years.....it's gone?

 

[SD51555]

Great stuff.

Am I understanding this right? If you have a canada thistle infestation problem (a pretty damn common thing), if you simply do not disturb the thistle for two years.....it's gone?

Not quite that simple. You have to diagnose why they showed up in the first place and correct that. On our farm growing up thistle endured forever because my dad kept the pasture grass at 1" all year long, and that sat atop the heaviest damn clay out there. Another perennial spot was where the cattle constantly trampled the ground near the buildings.

Where I think you can just walk away from them is where you've got short term one time disturbances. One example is where you have a fire. Another would be after spraying a food plot. Now if you keep spraying a food plot, you're going to have them just keep popping up a foot or two over from where the last one was. A third is like what I've got going in this thread. I spread about a foot of clay from a pond dig in that spot to fill in a trench. That clay came with less than a half point of OM, zero oxygen, low calcium, etc.

After the quality thistle crop I just laid down, I've got fiber out my ears in that clay from the thistle roots. The thistle above ground has become thatch. The next crop can follow the thistle root channels down, and I'm throwing gypsum on this weekend. I put probably a 10-12 way blend of annuals and perennials on there. Not all of them will make it, but some do great in dead clay like ragweed, black eyed susan, chicory, plantain, white sweet clover, jap millet, flax, etc.

 

[farmlegend]

Not quite that simple. You have to diagnose why they showed up in the first place and correct that. On our farm growing up thistle endured forever because my dad kept the pasture grass at 1" all year long, and that sat atop the heaviest damn clay out there. Another perennial spot was where the cattle constantly trampled the ground near the buildings.

Where I think you can just walk away from them is where you've got short term one time disturbances. One example is where you have a fire. Another would be after spraying a food plot. Now if you keep spraying a food plot, you're going to have them just keep popping up a foot or two over from where the last one was. A third is like what I've got going in this thread. I spread about a foot of clay from a pond dig in that spot to fill in a trench. That clay came with less than a half point of OM, zero oxygen, low calcium, etc.

After the quality thistle crop I just laid down, I've got fiber out my ears in that clay from the thistle roots. The thistle above ground has become thatch. The next crop can follow the thistle root channels down, and I'm throwing gypsum on this weekend. I put probably a 10-12 way blend of annuals and perennials on there. Not all of them will make it, but some do great in dead clay like ragweed, black eyed susan, chicory, plantain, white sweet clover, jap millet, flax, etc.

My canada thistle problem exists on my best dirt, some heavy silt loam on about a five degree slope, pH 7.1ish, good traditional soil test numbers. It can grow anything wonderfully until the thistle takes over. I've tried burning the thing down with glyphosate - the thistle returns. I've applied butyrac/clethodim/crop oil early in the spring to work on grasses and broadleaves, and the canada thistle just laughs at it. I used to mow it 3x a season, that didn't control it, and in recent years I just mow it once, and I note no difference. I start over with winter wheat into which I frostseed clover the following March, the clover looks great, but, no matter what, the canada thistle, with its seed bank going down to bedrock, just keeps on a' comin'.

Is there something I could "correct" that would keep the thistle down to a minor component? It does crowd out pretty much everything else.

 

[SD51555]

My canada thistle problem exists on my best dirt, some heavy silt loam on about a five degree slope, pH 7.1ish, good traditional soil test numbers. It can grow anything wonderfully until the thistle takes over. I've tried burning the thing down with glyphosate - the thistle returns. I've applied butyrac/clethodim/crop oil early in the spring to work on grasses and broadleaves, and the canada thistle just laughs at it. I used to mow it 3x a season, that didn't control it, and in recent years I just mow it once, and I note no difference. I start over with winter wheat into which I frostseed clover the following March, the clover looks great, but, no matter what, the canada thistle, with its seed bank going down to bedrock, just keeps on a' comin'.

Is there something I could "correct" that would keep the thistle down to a minor component? It does crowd out pretty much everything else.

Stop spraying altogether, and stop mowing more than once per year. Frankly, I would mow around the thistles. Every time you spray you're killing everything that is supposed to follow the thistle, and that puts you back to the beginning of the thistle cycle. You're not allowing the evolution cycle to get to year 2 and 3. Canada thistle doesn't need a seed bank. It's already got enough there for the next 50 years.

I know this sounds crazy, but look around. Do you see thistle anywhere you haven't sprayed, packed (trails), or worked up the soil? If it's not endemic in the natural landscape, plant it in a crazy mix and let it go completely. Once it looks like everything is done in late summer and is drying down, broadcast more white clover, rye, and chicory in there, and just flatten it. Pick as many extra perennials and cheap annuals as you want to go with it. Might not hurt to hit those patches with some pelletized gypsum too. A few 40lb bags don't cost much and can really put goodies down for your desirable species.