Straw for OM

[Crimson n' Camo]

So after the years did the crabgrass get choked out as your soil got better?

Soil conditions changed and made it more favorable for broadleafs to take hold.....I think the microbial community changed and had a swing toward more fungi being present as well.....I had over 25 species growing in and around the edge of the field up until a couple years ago. I then had a big boom in dog fennel suddenly and I believe its a combination of the first things I've mentioned along with the fact I was adding a good bit of synthetic N to my winter plots.....I think the dog fennel boomed off of all of the excess N in the soil.....Its just a guess though.....I've gone completely fert free this year to see what happens....so far so good. Plots looks outstanding with zero fert added

 

[Telemark]

Can you make compost? I use garden waste and household food waste. I can make a few tons a year no problem, and it's incredible stuff, full of nutrients and life. Is it possible for you to collect organic material on site? Or somewhere else and transport it? Leaves, lawn clippings, food waste, animal manure, etc.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Can you make compost? I use garden waste and household food waste. I can make a few tons a year no problem, and it's incredible stuff, full of nutrients and life. Is it possible for you to collect organic material on site? Or somewhere else and transport it? Leaves, lawn clippings, food waste, animal manure, etc.

It's possible but it would need transported I'm about 45 min from the farm

 

[Telemark]

If you have a truck or a trailer it might be worth just heaving out big loads of compost and manure. I grow vegetables in pure compost, and I've been using it more and more.

Even if you just pile up ton after ton of organic waste and let it rot down you will then have compost on site to spread.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Way over thinking things.

Bill Mollison once said the best way fix things is to remove the human equation.

 

[yoderjac]

It's possible but it would need transported I'm about 45 min from the farm

I'm not sure why a food plotter would want to collect and dump OM on top of the soil. Composting is what you are doing when you plant a smart mix/rotation of crops high in C and N. Not only do you get the OM above ground with no transportation/application cost, you also get even more OM below the soil level from the root systems. You can generally find great OM building crops that also benefit your deer herd.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DiSc0Rd]

I'm not sure why a food plotter would want to collect and dump OM on top of the soil. Composting is what you are doing when you plant a smart mix/rotation of crops high in C and N. Not only do you get the OM above ground with no transportation/application cost, you also get even more OM below the soil level from the root systems. You can generally find great OM building crops that also benefit your deer herd.

Thanks,

Jack

Think he is talking about getting a jump start,

 

[yoderjac]

Dumping a case of bottled water in a hole is a jumpstart on byuilding a pond, but it is expensive for a tiny head start. Similarly, building health soil with reasonable levels of OM is a very long-term project. Understanding how to best integrate this with a deer management program is time well spent. Figuring out the right mix/rotation of crops that will do well in your soils is important. Second only to doing no more harm with tillage.

We all tend to look for quick solutions for long-term problems. The hunting/food plot industry markets heavily on the quick fix. 95%+ of the time, time and money go in, and little if anything comes out. I know I'm still paying for damage I did to my soils in the early years with tillage. My desire to get fast, good looking, farm like food plots like you see in the glossy magazines drove me to act fast rather than stepping back and learning about long-term soil health and such.

Fortunately, nature heal if we give it time and don't continue the abuse. Understanding those processes that support the microbiome and nutrient cycling let us help the healing occur a bit faster, but it is still a long term process.

I well understand the urge, but caution against it. Having said that, surface broadcasting OM won't likely hurt anything unless it somehow inhibits your T&M. It is more the concept of looking for that quick fix like I did that is the larger risk.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Telemark]

Think he is talking about getting a jump start,

Exactly right. A friend of mine had a truckload of humus delivered to his food plot that was clay and wouldn't really germinate anything. The results were twofold: first he got that initial boost which allowed seeds to germinate and grow, but it also seems to have dramatically accelerated the growth and production of every subsequent planting and putting the entire process years ahead of where he would otherwise be without that initial jump start.

 

[yoderjac]

Exactly right. A friend of mine had a truckload of humus delivered to his food plot that was clay and wouldn't really germinate anything. The results were twofold: first he got that initial boost which allowed seeds to germinate and grow, but it also seems to have dramatically accelerated the growth and production of every subsequent planting and putting the entire process years ahead of where he would otherwise be without that initial jump start.

Did he disc or T&M?

 

[Telemark]

Did he disc or T&M?

I'm not sure. I think he just spread the humus on top.

 

[yoderjac]

I've got heavy clay. The biggest issues with low OM heavy clay is compaction and crusting. The humus probably contributed negligibly to OM. It probably had nutrients in it acting like fertilizer accounting for better growth. One thing it could have done is to prevent crusting which occurs when you get rain on clay that is not covered in vegetation. The crust become hard to penetrate so T&M does not do well. Min-til where you use a tiller to break the crust but don't go more than an inch deep may be necessary with clay. Clay compresses easily which can be another problem, especially if you get on it with heavy equipment when wet. The reason I ask about disking is that it could have addressed crusting. If done shallow it can have a significant positive effect. If done too deeply, while you may see short term gains, introducing O2 and destroying soil tilth would likely burn more OM than he added.

Sandy soil, like the OP has is very different. Both sand and clay soils with low OM can benefit greatly from building OM, but it is a slow process. I'm not suggesting at all that top dressing humus or manure or chicken litter can't be beneficial. If one does a soil test and finds they are low on certain nutrients and it is cost/time effective to topdress with OM that contains the nutrients they need, it can be a fine way to proceed. I'm saying that they don't have the same order of magnitude of contribution to long-term OM building as cycling soil building plants.

It is pretty easy to say "I did this and had great results" where someone with different limitation and constraints has very poor results. Topdressing can be a great thing in some circumstances. If the objective is long term soil health and building OM, it is not a great bang for the buck approach for that goal.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Long term management is the plan. I will be a TnM guy for the long foreseeable future as I don't have a tractor or the funds to get one. As I said before I'll be using the buckwheat (and maybe sorghum and sunflower) early and rye and brassica late. Wash, rinse, and repeat for the next decade. The brassica didn't come up at all this year but I'm not worried. I know it all takes time

 

[yoderjac]

Long term management is the plan. I will be a TnM guy for the long foreseeable future as I don't have a tractor or the funds to get one. As I said before I'll be using the buckwheat (and maybe sorghum and sunflower) early and rye and brassica late. Wash, rinse, and repeat for the next decade. The brassica didn't come up at all this year but I'm not worried. I know it all takes time

You are headed down the right path. Crimson N Cameo's T&M thread does a great job of taking soil health principles and applying them for guys with little equipment.

 

[Skeeter]

 

[jsasker007]

One mans junk is another mans treasure---any farmers around the property that might have a barn to clean out or maybe have some round bales that sat too long and have no feed value?

 

[jsasker007]

No one said you have to pay a premium to get the soil built up. Sounds like almost anything you could put on there would be a plus at this point.jmo

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I agree, if it is beach sand, I would put as much manure on it as you can haul in there, then cover it up with straw or old hay bales, then spread some winter rye in it. Let it sit until next fall and repeat. Not much will grow in beach sand. If you have some soil, I would still toss manure on it, and winter rye. There is a lot of seeds in manure, and winter rye will grow in almost anything.

 

[Bowman]

Couple of questions ...

My local Feed Mill dealer suggested growing sudan grass then mowing when it gets to 2'-3'. Repeat that process as many times as you can during the growing season. Thoughts?

Why no cereal grains?

Mowing increases the roots greatly and encourages tillers. This is mostly for warm season. Then plant for Fall.

 

[yoderjac]

Couple of questions ...

My local Feed Mill dealer suggested growing sudan grass then mowing when it gets to 2'-3'. Repeat that process as many times as you can during the growing season. Thoughts?

Why no cereal grains?

The sudan grass provides lots of C, but you want to balance C with N. I would mix or rotate a legume with your grass, whether it be sudan or a cereal. In my area sunn hemp fixes a lot of N and works well. An annual clover could work too. Crimson is a good fit for my area and it acts as a reseeding annual too. There may be better choices for your area, but you want a good balance between C and N.

Thanks,

Jack