Ryegrass big mistake or little mistake and how to rectify

[Lucky_P]

Pretty sure there are gonna be whitetails GRAZING on rye, wheat, ryegrass in my fields and plots every day and night from now until we cut 'em for hay, along about May. Then, they'll be back in there GRAZING the regrowth and clovers.
Yes, they browse, but if they didn't also graze, folks wouldn't be planting rye/wheat, brassicas, legumes.

 

[yoderjac]

Pretty sure there are gonna be whitetails GRAZING on rye, wheat, ryegrass in my fields and plots every day and night from now until we cut 'em for hay, along about May. Then, they'll be back in there GRAZING the regrowth and clovers.
Yes, they browse, but if they didn't also graze, folks wouldn't be planting rye/wheat, brassicas, legumes.

Well, I'm not sure there is a hard definition of the activity. This is just a wiki definition:

"Browsing is a type of herbivory in which a herbivore (or, more narrowly defined, a folivore) feeds on leaves, soft shoots, or fruits of high-growing, generally woody plants such as shrubs. This is contrasted with grazing, usually associated with animals feeding on grass or other lower vegetations"

Digestion is different between browsers like deer and grazers like cattle. Cattle can break down grasses like fescue that deer really don't benefit from. When times get tough, animals can sometimes survive on foods they are not designed to use. In fact, a deer's ability to digest foods changes over the course of a year. Sudden changes, like putting out corn in the middle of the winter, can cause enterotoxemia and this high quality high carb food at the wrong time can actually kill deer.

My point here is not really about supplemental feeding, but about understanding that browsers like deer have a complex digestive system that is quite different from grazing animals. The foods browsers and grazers eat do overlap but the value and food preference are quite different. It is not only about the nutrition a particular food has but also about what a deer can extract from that plant.

Browsers diets include woody plant, but they also include forbs and other herbaceous plants. In a sense, deer are actually browsing on your rye, wheat, ryegrass and such. Cattle eating the same plant would be grazing.

Thaks,

Jack

 

[Lucky_P]

Splitting hairs. I'm a veterinarian with background in animal science and nutrition. I'm well aware of the differences in digestve physiology between ruminant species, as well as preferences in forages - cattle selectively graze as well, with fescue (particularly high-endophyte KY-31) being one of the last things they'll eat when introduced to a fresh paddock.
Cattle also will browse, if in a wooded setting - there's a very noticeable 'browse line', devoid of leaves/branches up to about 7 feet in the 40 ft strip of woods at the edge of my pastures.
But...cattle lack the proline-rich salivary proteins that allow goats and whitetails - both noted browsers - to eat significant amounts of high-tannin foodstuffs, like acorns, buds, leaves with no ill effects.
If they're walking around nibbling leaves, buds, twigs well-above the ground, it's browsing. If they're putting their heads down and eating grass/forbs growing directly out of the soil, its grazing. Deer do both, hence the efforts we're all going to to provide a mix of desirable forages and mast sources to support and draw them in.
There appears to be division of opinion on suitability of ryegrass for food plots. Some are vehemently opposed to it, but I've used annual ryegrass in my plots for 50 years, with good acceptance and no evidence of invasive properties. YMMV.

 

[davidhelmly]

Like Baker I am in the south also and have never planted but it's in every plot I have and is a continuous nuisance, I would spray it with cleth as soon as it gets germinated!

 

[yoderjac]

Splitting hairs. I'm a veterinarian with background in animal science and nutrition. I'm well aware of the differences in digestve physiology between ruminant species, as well as preferences in forages - cattle selectively graze as well, with fescue (particularly high-endophyte KY-31) being one of the last things they'll eat when introduced to a fresh paddock.
Cattle also will browse, if in a wooded setting - there's a very noticeable 'browse line', devoid of leaves/branches up to about 7 feet in the 40 ft strip of woods at the edge of my pastures.
But...cattle lack the proline-rich salivary proteins that allow goats and whitetails - both noted browsers - to eat significant amounts of high-tannin foodstuffs, like acorns, buds, leaves with no ill effects.
If they're walking around nibbling leaves, buds, twigs well-above the ground, it's browsing. If they're putting their heads down and eating grass/forbs growing directly out of the soil, its grazing. Deer do both, hence the efforts we're all going to to provide a mix of desirable forages and mast sources to support and draw them in.
There appears to be division of opinion on suitability of ryegrass for food plots. Some are vehemently opposed to it, but I've used annual ryegrass in my plots for 50 years, with good acceptance and no evidence of invasive properties. YMMV.

Not a bad hair to split. I was trying to reframe from the activity to the animal. I'm sure you probably understand the differences digestion better than I do. So rather than talking about the activity, Browsing (plants are typically woody although the portion eaten may be woody or herbaceous) or grazing (low growing non-woody plants), for most folks here is it beneficial to differentiate between Browsers and Grazers. This indicates the primary activity of the animal. Basically, what they were made to do. This drives how deer relate to food sources differently than cattle. So, while cattle can browse, they are not browsers and while deer can graze, they are not essentially not grazers.

Your point is well taken regarding the activity.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Cap'n]

It depends on where you are located. In Oklahoma even perennial rye won’t make it through the summer.. It will die out in June in most case. Annual will grow on the same life cycle as wheat around here. But since it’s perennial and not annual you will need to eliminate it before it starts to seed. You can leave it in the plot for the fall/winter, but you should plan on taking it out early next spring. Perennial rye can become invasive and a monoculture in the right area. And the more mature it gets the more difficult to kill.

 

[yoderjac]

It depends on where you are located. In Oklahoma even perennial rye won’t make it through the summer.. It will die out in June in most case. Annual will grow on the same life cycle as wheat around here. But since it’s perennial and not annual you will need to eliminate it before it starts to seed. You can leave it in the plot for the fall/winter, but you should plan on taking it out early next spring. Perennial rye can become invasive and a monoculture in the right area. And the more mature it gets the more difficult to kill.

Yep, It depends on lots of factors, weather being one. The general point is that unless you really know what you are dong and that it won't be a problem in your program, I'd avoid it.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

My first plot I planted had "high sugar rye grass" in it. This has been about 10 years ago. Luckily at the time I only planted it in about 1/3 of my 3/4 acre food plot. I have sprayed it with Cleth, Round up several times, and so far it has only spread to about half of the rest of the food plot. I can not kill it, and it is so thick, I have a hard time discing in it. I will admit, deer to eat it, and I wouldnt be as concerned if it would stop spreading through the rest of the food plot.

 

[Turkish]

Deer eat kudzu, too.

 

[jsasker007]

I think maybe what works for some areas very well doesn't work in other areas worth a damn. A weed is something growing where you don't want it. Some don't want rye grass and maybe some do(it does come up fast and add to the options for deer). If it has the ability to take over a plot then I'd say get rid of it unless you want a pure stand of rye grass. BOB mixes also have large and small seeds mixed together to plant all at once---I don't like that at all.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

If I wanted to plant something for erosion control, and I wasnt concerned with it spreading, high sugar rye grass would be at the top of the list. But being mine is in the middle of my food plot I plant with radish and turnips every year, I have no want for it.

 

[35-acre]

Awe man. I hope this site doesn't turn into "bowsite" (a bunch of grumpy guys arguing).

 

[Bill]

Awe man. I hope this site doesn't turn into "bowsite" (a bunch of grumpy guys arguing).

grumpy doesn’t do well here.

 

[35-acre]

grumpy doesn’t do well here.

I wish I wasn't limited to just one like for that!

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

If your food plot is spindly and crappy looking I would let the rye grass go for the fall since it shouldn't go to seed this late in the season (assuming your growing season ends shortly). You can take it out next spring with some clethodim.

There was some rye grass seed in a bagged mix I bought years ago. It grew great but the deer didn't like it much and it seems like the rye grass took over everything. Clethodim takes it out pretty well if you spray it before it goes to seed. I had a little growing in my clover plot this year and a late august spraying worked well to kill the grass and leave the clover.

 

[WKyGasDoc]

all good advice I appreciate all input, think i will let it go this fall, and kill in spring.. I will try to post some pics for all of us to see how it affected my setup

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

all good advice I appreciate all input, think i will let it go this fall, and kill in spring.. I will try to post some pics for all of us to see how it affected my setup

The only effect it is going to have is covering the soil, building organic matter, scavenging nutrients, and feeding some deer. Looks like it wont affect your setup to much.