Pole Shed Question

[bowhunternw]

So I am planning to build a shed that would basically be split in 2, 2/3 garage and 1/3 living. I had thoughts of pouring concrete in just the living portion. Maybe overthinking but what I was wondering is since the posts would be below the frost line and the concrete above, would the concrete tend to lift a little in the winter?

 

[Livesintrees]

So I am planning to build a shed that would basically be split in 2, 2/3 garage and 1/3 living. I had thoughts of pouring concrete in just the living portion. Maybe overthinking but what I was wondering is since the posts would be below the frost line and the concrete above, would the concrete tend to lift a little in the winter?

Anything is possible. But just consider most homes are built the same way. Foundation is dug and footings are poured as per you local code (here it ranges from 36”-42” depending on location). Then your garage and basement slabs are poured separately (4-6” thick).

Is this going to be your home Or is it just basically your “hunting camp”? Will it be heated all the time or just when your there? It all makes a difference

 

[bowhunternw]

Just a hunting camp, my only thoughts were for instance finishing the walls. Don't want a problem down the road, could leave a little gap but I feel like that could open the door for bugs. Mainly looking for people that had done something similar and if there has been any issues. Thanks

 

[yoderjac]

So I am planning to build a shed that would basically be split in 2, 2/3 garage and 1/3 living. I had thoughts of pouring concrete in just the living portion. Maybe overthinking but what I was wondering is since the posts would be below the frost line and the concrete above, would the concrete tend to lift a little in the winter?

We put a cement floor in our pole barn. I love it. I built dollies for many of my implements. It lets me roll them around by myself for efficient storage and hookup. We have had no issues with the concrete moving. The built the barn first then poured the floor.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Northbound]

Yes, its going to happen. May be noticeable or maybe not, most likely will be by doors. It's very different than a home or attached garage slab as those are frost protected by the frost walls/ foundation. Building pole barn on a frost protected slab or grade beam slab is my preference over posts in ground- You also save some (not enough to buy concrete) building costs as building on a slab is much faster than putting holes in.

 

[ksgobbler]

Pour your concrete for the shop part now if you think you want it. My folks built their shop 30 years ago and were going to put in a concrete floor. It still is gravel.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I built a 30x40 stick built building that's about 1/2 living quarters and 1/2 garage. We went with a steel roof and siding and hopefully that lasts as long as I'll need it. We put concrete under the entire building and also foam insulation under the concrete to prevent heaving and cracking. My building is about 5 years old now and everything is great.

We ended up insulating and sheet rocking the garage as well to keep as much heat in as possible. If we ever need more room we could relatively easily turn the whole building into a cabin and build another lower cost garage/shed if necessary.

 

[bowhunternw]

Ok maybe that is a smarter way to go, pour slab and just stick build on top of it. When stick built how are you attaching the steel, are you osb'ing the outside or do you still run horizontal perlines (sp)?

Ben is it something that you built yourself? If so could you say how much the building cost roughly without the inside finishes? Looking for materials alone, concrete and outer shell

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I paid a contractor to build my building and it was essentially built just like a stick built house with 2x6 exterior walls and 2x4 interior walls. There was OSB on the outside of the entire building. We did exactly as you described and had the slab poured and the stick built building on top of it. We brought in a plumber and electrician to run the water and electricity pipes under the concrete so we didn't have to cut any holes in the concrete when adding electricity, water and sewer line.

We also added a 6' overhang on the long end with concrete under it so we had a nice porch. That worked really well and I'm glad we added that to the building.

Will you be adding electrical, plumbing, heating? Costs start adding up pretty quick with that, but they are nice to have. What started as a simple deer hunting shack kind of snowballed a bit and now we have a nice cabin that we use frequently year round.

 

[Northbound]

If you stick build and want steel on walls most builders do horizontal 2x4s. Personally I like osb so that a nice house wrap can be installed and really like to top it with foam for a solid thermal break. Some builders use the sales pitch that 2x4 walls with horizontal 2x4 girts being better as you can fit r19 (6") insulation. Again my personal opinion is I'd take a 2x4 wall insulated with osb and foam sheeting (r14.5) over a wall with 6" insulation (r19)any day. Of course a 6"wall with tyvek and foam is even better yet.
Also if your stick framing now you could go with roof sheeting rather than purlins to accommodate standing seam metal roofing for a actual 'lifetime'roof. Corrugated barn steel on roofs is more of a lifetime roof with a bunch of 15 year fasteners... not that it's bad. Just keep those o rings in mind after a decade of metal expanding and contracting daily- they need attention.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Windows also increase the price, but I would recommend adding big windows near the living areas so you can look outside from the kitchen table or living room areas. You could probably prep the site, pour concrete and get a low cost shell put up for $30k+, but then every time you add windows, porch, under concrete foam insulation, etc., etc., etc. the price goes up fast. The price will easily double if you have to bring in power, water, add a driveway, propane tank and furnace, insulate and finish the interior etc.

Cabin/garage combos aren't cheap to build, but being able to sleep on your hunting land makes it worth it in the long run. If I had to do it again, I might orient the building differently with more windows facing south to collect the late fall/winter sun. My garage door side faces south now and that doesn't help too much especially since my garage door doesn't have any windows.

 

[bowhunternw]

That is exactly the style that I am interested in doing. Really like the little overhang porch area. There will be electricity, no plumbing and heat I was thinking of ventless gas and a little wood stove. Nothing real fancy. Will do the shell this year and finish the insides over time.

 

[bowhunternw]

If you stick build and want steel on walls most builders do horizontal 2x4s. Personally I like osb so that a nice house wrap can be installed and really like to top it with foam for a solid thermal break. Some builders use the sales pitch that 2x4 walls with horizontal 2x4 girts being better as you can fit r19 (6") insulation. Again my personal opinion is I'd take a 2x4 wall insulated with osb and foam sheeting (r14.5) over a wall with 6" insulation (r19)any day. Of course a 6"wall with tyvek and foam is even better yet.
Also if your stick framing now you could go with roof sheeting rather than purlins to accommodate standing seam metal roofing for a actual 'lifetime'roof. Corrugated barn steel on roofs is more of a lifetime roof with a bunch of 15 year fasteners... not that it's bad. Just keep those o rings in mind after a decade of metal expanding and contracting daily- they need attention.

Great input, thanks

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I was planning on going with a wood stove too until I got an insurance quote. It was actually cheaper for me to put in a forced air furnace and LP tank and pay for LP than go with a cheap wood burner and the increased insurance amount. That made my heating decision a lot easier.

It wouldn't hurt to run some tubes for future water and sewer before you pour the concrete though if there's even a remote chance you will ever add electricity, water or sewer. it will cost a couple hundred bucks extra, but save you a couple grand if you ever expand.

The overhang porch is definitely something worth adding on a hunting/fishing cabin. Great spot to have a coffee in the morning, beer in the evening or store hunting clothes, clean fish in the rain, etc.

 

[Tree Spud]

We did 2"x 8" studs on walls with 1.5" of spray foam then 6" of insulation. OSB on interior & exterior wall with Tyvek on exterior. Concrete floor with in-floor heating and 2" foam insulation below.

The best "other" thing we did was to upgrade to high insulation garage doors which I believe are R19. Have not seen any frost on the garage door and on is 10-12.

We keep the thermostat at 60 F and can work inside in a T-shirt. Very glad we spent the extra $$.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

So I am planning to build a shed that would basically be split in 2, 2/3 garage and 1/3 living. I had thoughts of pouring concrete in just the living portion. Maybe overthinking but what I was wondering is since the posts would be below the frost line and the concrete above, would the concrete tend to lift a little in the winter?

Depending on how wet your soil is and how good you drain the area around the shed, you may experience little to no heaving of the pad or you may experience several inches. A home is indeed built the same way, but a home's foundation is frost protected and is heated 24/7 and the pad doesn't lift. If you don't heat your living space 24/7 in the winter it might lift. This can cause all kinds of headaches with wall framing and things like wood stove chimney pipes.

Not sure how big you're thinking about going. But if it's just a shed and your code allows for it you might just pour an Alaskan slab and build everything right on top of that. That way everything floats the same. Drain it real well, bring in lots of traprock under the pad, and use foam to insulate the pad and you might be fine.

Good luck!

 

[bowhunternw]

Thanks so much guys I feel like I have a plan now, think I will imitate Bens building. Just do a floating slab and go ultimately a little smaller than my original thoughts.

 

[bowhunternw]

Am I crazy though I feel like if I did they work myself I could put the shell up for a little under 10k?

 

[swat1018]

Am I crazy though I feel like if I did they work myself I could put the shell up for a little under 10k?

Did you ever say what size, how tall sidewalls, etc. $10K is possible depending on size, but not with concrete.

 

[Redonthehead]

Also if your stick framing now you could go with roof sheeting rather than purlins to accommodate standing seam metal roofing for a actual 'lifetime'roof. Corrugated barn steel on roofs is more of a lifetime roof with a bunch of 15 year fasteners... not that it's bad. Just keep those o rings in mind after a decade of metal expanding and contracting daily- they need attention.

I believe the hidden fastener standing seam metal roofing costs about twice as much, plus needs have the roof sheathed, is that correct? I've been wondering about the standard screwed on roofing with rubber washers. Do they have to be replaced in 15 years? I can't have a roof leak if I finish half the inside as living quarters...