Plans for a blank slate

[roymunson]

A buddy of mine and I own 230 or so contiguous acres (Zone 5B) that we're planning on hunting as 1 piece. Had some open fields that we want to convert from pasture to food plots, but we'll have to build soil first.

I have a friend who owns Drumming Log Wildlife (writes in QDMA magazine if any of you guys subscribe) and he did a quick once over on the place yesterday giving us some pointers on it.

1. The southern 3 fields are part of the "new" farm and the soil needs built up (in the 5's now). Rather than breaking the bank and spending a ton of money on lime and fertilizer (will have to do some, but hopefully keep it minimal), I'm going to try to grow some soil building crops this year, plus the lime implimentation is obviously out the window for results for this year anymore. So I'm planning a mix of AWP, Daikon Radishes, and oats in the purple boxes.

2. the 2 corn plots are for deer hunting. the southern one had some urea put on it, but that's about it (converted pasture) the north east plot has been planted in various things over the last 2-3 years, along with heavy soil management to get it going. There's an incredible difference. the corn to the northeast is 10-12' high and has big ears and will be a stallion of a plot once it gets cold. The southern plot is almost embarassing.

3. The green triangle has some clover in it that we've just brush hogged and tried to get the clover to come back. Planning on over seeding with more next spring.

4. Just above that green clover triangle, and below the sanctuary plot, we're planning a switch grass edge 15-20 yards wide headed NW thru the narrows and thru the next field northeast to create an edge.

we're planning to leave the area inside the green as a sanctuary. The hills and ravines aren't very condusive to a steady wind anyways, and we have access to hunt on the north side of the sanctuary too.

Couple questions I have is:
1. on my mix of AWP, Daikon Radishes, Oats as a soil builder plot, do you guys have any more good ideas on soil building crops? I'm assuming I need to spend some time w/ the rotational ideas I've seen referenced here.

2. I'd like to get some mast in, where do you guys prefer to get apple/pears? Other properties locally have had good success with Dunstan Chestnuts. Father of my buddy/partner here has some persimmons that were in sand and he transplanted into his garden. Said they're doing good, he offered them to me to try (I know that persimmons in zone 5b of NE Ohio are a marginally successful, but for a couple bucks they seem like an alright gamble)

3. Any glaring issues you guys see that would be worth talking about? I'd like to hear more ideas and maybe something outside of what my tunnel vision has become here.

 

[j-bird]

#1 - most "soil building" crops will build organic matter and help the soil compaction and the like.....I don't think it will help the pH you mentioned. I know lots of folks plant buckwheat for soil improvements. Only way I know to help the low pH is lime application.

#2 - I was happy with my trees from Turkey Creek. Look in the "fruit tree" area and you will find where folks get their trees from. I like crabapples because they tend to be easier to care for and fruit sooner. I like semi-dwarf sized trees. I have also had decent luck with Dunstan Chestnuts as well. Keep in mind that with fruit trees you need to avoid frost pockets and have them in areas where they will get good sun and air circulation.

#3 - Only thing that jumps out at me is the sanctuary is north of the food. This may pose some issues regarding stand access and the like. I would also suggest having access along the entire property line if possible. If for no other reason....to keep tabs that the neighbors are staying on their side! My only other suggestion is to start long-term project now. We tend to do the easy stuff first....stuff we see a shorter return on. Planting trees and the like seem to get put off...and then you regret not doing them first!

 

[Barndog56]

For your goal of soil building I would substitute cereal rye in place of the oats. Rye develops a much bigger root system, which will add more organic matter and break up any hardpan, and it stays alive all winter long, which is a big plus for your soil biology.

You didn't mention tillage, but I'm hoping your doing this with minimal tillage or your soil building efforts will be for naught.

As far as lime and ph goes, ignore it. As long as you have something living all year round, adding OM to the soil, the soil biology will adjust your ph to whatever they need it to be.

 

[roymunson]

#1 - most "soil building" crops will build organic matter and help the soil compaction and the like.....I don't think it will help the pH you mentioned. I know lots of folks plant buckwheat for soil improvements. Only way I know to help the low pH is lime application.

#2 - I was happy with my trees from Turkey Creek. Look in the "fruit tree" area and you will find where folks get their trees from. I like crabapples because they tend to be easier to care for and fruit sooner. I like semi-dwarf sized trees. I have also had decent luck with Dunstan Chestnuts as well. Keep in mind that with fruit trees you need to avoid frost pockets and have them in areas where they will get good sun and air circulation.

#3 - Only thing that jumps out at me is the sanctuary is north of the food. This may pose some issues regarding stand access and the like. I would also suggest having access along the entire property line if possible. If for no other reason....to keep tabs that the neighbors are staying on their side! My only other suggestion is to start long-term project now. We tend to do the easy stuff first....stuff we see a shorter return on. Planting trees and the like seem to get put off...and then you regret not doing them first!

Good Advice.

The property extends north of the sanctuary and we have access up there, albeit it's mostly wooded.
There is 1, 4 acre interior food plot on the nw edge of the sanctuary. From there we have a lot of big woods, relatively speaking for ohio.
That said, the farms/ag fields are mostly south of our piece. We hold a bunch of the bedding and get a lot of late morning action and early pm action.
My partner/buddy is a heck of a lot better with a chainsaw than I am, and plans are to lay down several windrows to alter/guide deer movement entering plots and bring them to better pinch points.

I'll check into the rye vs oats deal. The browse pressure can be pretty intense as its one of the pockets in Ohio where deer numbers are still pretty high. We saw 60 different deer one late October evening last year between 3 guys hunting the perimeter of that sanctuary. (1 north, 2 south), hoping to set up our place as a staging area between the big ag destinations and the heavy bedding to the north.

 

[yoderjac]

First, there is probably some bad blood between many folks here and QDMA stemming from the forum closure and from some even older regional issues. Not that I personally have any heartburn with them but I'm no longer an active supporter. They recently stopped sending me the QW magazine although I stopped my membership long ago. I'm not sure if I've read any of your buddies articles or not.

As far as soil building goes, what you are trying to build is usually OM. The key there is to start by not destroying what you have through traditional tillage. Start by googling "Ray the Soil Guy" and watch some of his videos. Start with the infiltration test. Pasture land is a great start as it has not been likely tilled for years. If you have access to large no-till drills you can go that route. If not, read some of Crimson N Camo's throw and mow threads. He takes many of the principles Ray espouses and applies them to food plots with small equipment.

Minimizing tillage will contribute more to your soil health than 10 years of soil building. I prefer Winter Rye to oats as a cereal for soil building. It will produce better in infertile soil with poor pH. It germinates better when surface broadcast. It also has a chemical effect on weeds. In my area, deer don't care what kind of cereal you plant, they eat it all so I use WR for the soil benefits. Building OM is much like composting where you balance "browns" and "Greens" (C:N). Grass crops will provide the C component and legumes will provide the N. You can achieve this by either rotation or mixing. I prefer mixing. In my area, I like to use Crimson Clover as the N component in the fall because it acts as a reseeding annual and bounces back strong in the early spring. This might not be a fit for 5B as I am in 7B. The crimson covers the early spring and I can plant buckwheat for the summer.

Again my location is different than yours so my permaculture strategy is different. I have native persimmons so grafting female scions from trees with different drop times to male trees already established in the field was the best bang for the buck for me. Chestnuts (Dunstan and Chinese), and Allegheny Chinquapins, grown from seed seem to be doing well but take a long time to produce. Apples produce more quickly than pears but most apples take more maintenance. Apples were last on my list because of the maintenance but I'm finally planting them. Look for disease resistant apples. This site has a wealth of information on disease resistant varieties which take less maintenance.

Thanks,

Jack