One Bullet for everything??

[Native Hunter]

…and the problem with “tougher bullets” is that they may not expand enough on Whitetails. Last year I shot my buck with a TTSX 180 grain in 300 Win Mag. It was a broadside double lung shot at around 200 yards. That deer went 90 yards before going down, which is the longest distance I’ve ever had a deer to go.

If I had to choose between a bullet that was too soft versus too hard, I would take the soft bullet every time. That’s because I know that no rib is going to be able to keep the bullet (or bullet fragments) from going on into the lungs on a broadside shot. And, if the bullet doesn’t exit, that’s fine too, because I know that all of the energy was released inside the animal rather than some of it being wasted after it goes out the other side.

I hunted for years with a 7 mag and 120 grain Ballistic Tips in a full throttle load. I seldom had an exit hole. However, the energy release and multiple cutting bullet fragments put them down fast - usually in their tracks. The lungs would look like a mangled mess of jelly.

As stated in an earlier post, I’m a vitals shooter on deer, but any kind of shot goes on a coyote. Perhaps the best bullet depends more on the hunter’s style of hunting and type of hunting than anything else.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

"suffice for all big game animals?"

Because of this statement, I'd lean towards tougher bullets designed for controlled expansion and deep penetration. I see alot of guys recommending some pretty soft bullets, which are great for deer, but I'd be worried about them on bigger stuff.
My son and I just got back from hunting moose in Newfoundland. One guy in camp shot a mid sized caribou with a .308 using 178 grn eldx's. It killed the caribou, but barely penetrated to the vitals. Another guy shot a moose 4 times with a .30-06 using Hornady ammo. None of the bullets exited. It took a long time for that moose to die.
My son shot 2 moose with my .338-06 using 185 grn barnes ttsx's. 1 shot a piece. The first was a nice sized cow with complete penetration. She went 20 yards and dropped. The second was a young bull at a hard quartering away angle. Bullets entered just in front of the left ham and stopped in the neck on the off side. He went about 10 yards.

Did the ELDx hit big bone first? They are explosive but i'm kind of surprised it would be that bad at 308 velocities.

I killed a few animals with the 175gr 7mm ELDx a couple years ago and found them very explosive but they killed well (Elk, Wolf, and sheep in avatar). I would like something a little stouter if I was taking a quartering to shot on an elk but beyond that they work fine. 200 grainers in a 300 wsm have been less explosive on deer/elk at roughly the same velocity i was shooting the 7mms.

 

[Teeder]

All very true. That's why I originally suggested an accubond or partition or light ttsx. Plenty of expansion, but will hold together on bone.
It's hard to pick one that's perfect for all, but luckily in this day and age, there are plenty of good bullets out there. The harder part may be finding them for sale!

 

[Teeder]

Did the ELDx hit big bone first? They are explosive but i'm kind of surprised it would be that bad at 308 velocities.

I killed a few animals with the 175gr 7mm ELDx a couple years ago and found them very explosive but they killed well (Elk, Wolf, and sheep in avatar). I would like something a little stouter if I was taking a quartering to shot on an elk but beyond that they work fine. 200 grainers in a 300 wsm have been less explosive on deer/elk at roughly the same velocity i was shooting the 7mms.

Just a rib on the way in at about 50 yards.

 

[Telemark]

One guy in camp shot a mid sized caribou with a .308 using 178 grn eldx's.

I shot several red deer last year with ELDX. They come apart if they hit anything dense. I wouldn't dare take a shot on a hard quartering angle or a raking shot. That said, they kill very well if you hit the animal correctly. And they are the most precise shooting bullet I've ever shot.

 

[yoderjac]

…and the problem with “tougher bullets” is that they may not expand enough on Whitetails. Last year I shot my buck with a TTSX 180 grain in 300 Win Mag. It was a broadside double lung shot at around 200 yards. That deer went 90 yards before going down, which is the longest distance I’ve ever had a deer to go.

If I had to choose between a bullet that was too soft versus too hard, I would take the soft bullet every time. That’s because I know that no rib is going to be able to keep the bullet (or bullet fragments) from going on into the lungs on a broadside shot. And, if the bullet doesn’t exit, that’s fine too, because I know that all of the energy was released inside the animal rather than some of it being wasted after it goes out the other side.

I hunted for years with a 7 mag and 120 grain Ballistic Tips in a full throttle load. I seldom had an exit hole. However, the energy release and multiple cutting bullet fragments put them down fast - usually in their tracks. The lungs would look like a mangled mess of jelly.

As stated in an earlier post, I’m a vitals shooter on deer, but any kind of shot goes on a coyote. Perhaps the best bullet depends more on the hunter’s style of hunting and type of hunting than anything else.

Interesting points. When we don't get an exit wound, unless the deer absorbs enough energy to go down in sight, we have a tracking problem. With no blood trail tracking can be difficult depending on terrain and vegetation. With high power round with harder bullets, scapula shots can really rip up smaller deer.

I think like most things, there is no one-size fits all for southern sized whitetail through moose. We may find a caliber like the 300 Win Mag that can cover the range, but no one load will really be ideal across the board.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[BOC]

Barnes TTSX. You can thank me later!

 

[ozarkpugs]

Again , cavity back bullets . They will expand on a fox yet still exit an elk leaving a big three sided hole . One bullet for everything from varmints to big boys quick expansion and near 100% weight retention .

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[Teeder]

Those have got to be pretty long being solid copper and having a hollow back end.

 

[ozarkpugs]

Those have got to be pretty long being solid copper and having a hollow back end.

The cavity and less engraving allows you to use the same powder charge as most lead bullets of the same weight . They also foul the barrel less than most bullets .

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[Teeder]

Wish they made a 7mm to try.

 

[yoderjac]

Again , cavity back bullets . They will expand on a fox yet still exit an elk leaving a big three sided hole . One bullet for everything from varmints to big boys quick expansion and near 100% weight retention .

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How's the ballistics?

 

[ozarkpugs]

How's the ballistics?

Actually great , the weight is forward of center point so they stay stable . They are long for weight compared to conventional bullets . I personally was not a fan of mono bullets until I tried them . There 125 mkz for 300 bo makes it a good close range deer gun and they make 125s for faster calibers . As matter fact I would not own my .300 bo if it were not for their 195 grain sub bullets . They open to over an inch out past 500 yards . (No I will not shoot anything past around 100 ) The owner of CBB is a big fan of the 6.8 spc so I reluctantly gave them a try in my 6.8s . Against all odds my first load shot great out of all three barrels 12.5" 16" and 18" .

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[yoderjac]

Actually great , the weight is forward of center point so they stay stable . They are long for weight compared to conventional bullets . I personally was not a fan of mono bullets until I tried them . There 125 mkz for 300 bo makes it a good close range deer gun and they make 125s for faster calibers . As matter fact I would not own my .300 bo if it were not for their 195 grain sub bullets . They open to over an inch out past 500 yards . (No I will not shoot anything past around 100 ) The owner of CBB is a big fan of the 6.8 spc so I reluctantly gave them a try in my 6.8s . Against all odds my first load shot great out of all three barrels 12.5" 16" and 18" .

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Why won't you shoot at longer distances? No shot opportunities in your habitat...Skill issue...or something like that? Or, accuracy at longer ranges or retained KE?

 

[Mozark]

I'm a fan of bullets on the fragile side that really expand well, because I limit myself to heart and lung shots - except for coyotes, and then I will take any shot. I want most of my energy to be spent in the animal, but I do like an exit hole on the other side. Hence, my favorite two deer bullet for the 308 are the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip and the 150 Hornady SST. Both of them do a super job of expanding and give nice exit holes, but I prefer the Nosler overall.

I don't elk hunt, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with either of those bullets. Maybe an Accubond would be better for that job, but I would still stay with a 150 grain in 308. I have the drop and drift memorized out to 700 yards with a 150 in 308, and changing to something else with more drop would just mess me up.

PS - if anyone wants to sell any 150 Ballistic Tips, I would likely buy them from you. I'm down to less than 100 and can't find any.

PM sent

 

[ozarkpugs]

A 1" bullet going less than 1,100 fps ( sub sonic ) is going to only have so much momentum to penetrate . A 195 grain going the same speed as a 45 acp has basically the same power as a 45acp . The advantage a . 300 bo has is that it starts out smaller and sleeker so doesn't loose velocity as fast so is flatter shooting and the act of entering body doesn't rob as much energy so it has more to penetrate . A CBB sub sonic 195 expands so fast it is like a parachute and often stops under the offside hide . That and sub sonic drops off fast after 100 yards and I have 6.8 s with 105 cavity back bullets for deer . The super sonic loads with 125 cavity back or 110 tac are good out past 200 yd but because of drop I don't plan on shooting farther than that with bo . That is what the 6.8s are for .


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[yoderjac]

A 1" bullet going less than 1,100 fps ( sub sonic ) is going to only have so much momentum to penetrate . A 195 grain going the same speed as a 45 acp has basically the same power as a 45acp . The advantage a . 300 bo has is that it starts out smaller and sleeker so doesn't loose velocity as fast so is flatter shooting and the act of entering body doesn't rob as much energy so it has more to penetrate . A CBB sub sonic 195 expands so fast it is like a parachute and often stops under the offside hide . That and sub sonic drops off fast after 100 yards and I have 6.8 s with 105 cavity back bullets for deer . The super sonic loads with 125 cavity back or 110 tac are good out past 200 yd but because of drop I don't plan on shooting farther than that with bo . That is what the 6.8s are for .


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Oh...so these cavity back are specifically for sub-sonic loads at short ranges. A far cry from one bullet for everything...

 

[Teeder]

The weight-forward thing is interesting.

 

[ozarkpugs]

Oh...so these cavity back are specifically for sub-sonic loads at short ranges. A far cry from one bullet for everything...

Re read the post I stated sub sonic and super sonic both . They make bullets that are for super sonic only and need 1400 fps to expand for all calibers except the . 30 calibers . In 30 caliber they have low velocity bullets for . 300 bo and 30/30 velocity . Plus a 195 30 caliber for subsonic ( it opens down to around 600 fps ) then they have 30 caliber bullets for faster cartridges . If you are truly interested in finding out about them go onto their page .

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[yoderjac]

Re read the post I stated sub sonic and super sonic both . They make bullets that are for super sonic only and need 1400 fps to expand for all calibers except the . 30 calibers . In 30 caliber they have low velocity bullets for . 300 bo and 30/30 velocity . Plus a 195 30 caliber for subsonic ( it opens down to around 600 fps ) then they have 30 caliber bullets for faster cartridges . If you are truly interested in finding out about them go onto their page .

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I'm not interested in the sales pitch, but I am interested in actual user experiences. I did miss the part on supersonic bullets.