No Till/No Herbicide: is it possible?

[lazy_turtle]

Hey all,

I bought a farm last November. Some of the areas I want to plot haven’t been touched in 30+ years, so I’ve been going back and forth on if I never till or never use herbicides.

Is it possible to do neither with much success??

If you had to choose between no-till and no herbicides, which would you choose?

I was about to give up on the dream of doing neither, but as if it was a sign, a random grass fire hit my farm and almost completely cleared the plots. See pic. Is there anything I can throw down now to suppress weeds?

 

[Brian662]

I think it could be done but it wouldn't be clean plots and you'd need some timely rains in your favor for germination.
If you killed the broadleaf off via continuous mowing, you'll likely encourage a stand of grasses.
A rotation that included heavy rye in the fall could get you started on weed suppression and then a clover/chicory combo that could be mowed would be your best bet. I think any kind of rotated annuals would likely fail without a drill/crimper which is a huge investment.

 

[Bill]

depending on what your planting one dose of herbicide might not be a bad thing. If I was doing clover I’d wait for the burn to green up and hit it with herbicide once. Get down some clover and oats in the spring and hope for the best. After that just keeping it mowed goes a long way.

 

[Buckly]

White clovers and cereal cover crops with timely mowing and it might be possible but, there’s always that one weed that shows up! And causes a catastrophe

 

[lazy_turtle]

Really didn’t have an exact plan yet. Clover is certainly an option. Ideally I would have something growing/palatable 365. Maybe something like Grant Woods process. But didn’t know if you could really get that rotation started without herbicide or tilling.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Where are you located?

I’d pull a soil sample first and foremost to determine where I am from a fertility perspective.

Using no herbicide and no tillage on a brand new piece is difficult unless you have a drill.

Do you have access to a bush hog or flail mower?

 

[lazy_turtle]

Where are you located?

I’d pull a soil sample first and foremost to determine where I am from a fertility perspective.

Using no herbicide and no tillage on a brand new piece is difficult unless you have a drill.

Do you have access to a bush hog or flail mower?

Just east of KC MO. I do have a bush hog and a row planter. There’s a local drill we could rent as well.

 

[Buckhunter10]

Just east of KC MO. I do have a bush hog and a row planter. There’s a local drill we could rent as well.

Dang those are some darn nice looking soils man!! With those CECs - I really wouldn’t be super nervous about light tillage when needed for weed control (if you’d rather go that route vs. herbicide).

If you do want to do the no till route - go for it. I’d likely seed a spring/summer blend a bit heavier to help suppress weeds. You can terminate that crop via bushog (works fine - if you see windrowed area - just mow it other way to spread thatch out). Plant a diverse fall blend.

As for seeding now - frost seeding clovers ought to work.

Hope this helps!

 

[omicron1792]

Really didn’t have an exact plan yet. Clover is certainly an option. Ideally I would have something growing/palatable 365. Maybe something like Grant Woods process. But didn’t know if you could really get that rotation started without herbicide or tilling.

Grant Woods literally has hundreds of videos on his process. You should watch them all.

Getting to a point of not using Herbicide’s or tillage is a process. It would work better if you would start with no tilling but usesome herbicides for one or two rounds to get things under control. Then move away from Herbicide’s. You would really only need to use glyphosate.

 

[omicron1792]

Just east of KC MO. I do have a bush hog and a row planter. There’s a local drill we could rent as well.

Also, read the notill thread by Crimson n camo on this site. You can do it with just a broadcast spreader and a mower. Also, listen to Buckhunter that is posted in this thread.

Native Hunter on this site also has some good posts of using a zero turn mower and spreading seed.

I wouldn’t be too rigid about anything. If a dominant weed comes in, take a backpack sprayer with Roundup and just hit the weeds.

 

[omicron1792]

Also it seems like you might be more interested in native grasses and Forbs. If you get something like that going, it will provide bedding and food for lots of wildlife. Really the only maintenance would be mowing it or disking it every couple of years, or burning it every couple of years. Since it was already burned, if you lightly disced it now, and spread some native seeds and forbs, you would get a great stand.

 

[Brian662]

Did you indicate to the soil sample outfit that you'd Iike to plant soybeans? That's what it looks like and if that's the case, you'll have trouble getting them to grow a decent crop without herbicides.

 

[lazy_turtle]

Grant Woods literally has hundreds of videos on his process. You should watch them all.

I've watched most of them! Just wondering if there was actually a way to get started without using either. Sounds like it's a process though

Also it seems like you might be more interested in native grasses and Forbs. If you get something like that going, it will provide bedding and food for lots of wildlife. Really the only maintenance would be mowing it or disking it every couple of years, or burning it every couple of years. Since it was already burned, if you lightly disced it now, and spread some native seeds and forbs, you would get a great stand.

Definitely interested in some natives in some of these plot areas, so thanks for this.

Did you indicate to the soil sample outfit that you'd Iike to plant soybeans? That's what it looks like and if that's the case, you'll have trouble getting them to grow a decent crop without herbicides.

My latest plan for this 4 acres before getting the idea of no-till AND no herbicide was:

RR soybeans this spring to get weeds under control. We have a planter.

This fall:

Mow strip around outside edge of entire plot and broadcast clover and a cereal

Mow few strips and broadcast brassicas in mid August

Several weeks later broadcast heavy rye. At least in standing beans , maybe everywhere.

 

[omicron1792]

How did I forget about you Baker. Another good one and has posted lots of videos on transitioning his place to no till and no fertilizer!

 

[Nightvision]

I think you’ll be surprised at what that will look like when your spring greenup comes. That fire was probably the best thing that has happened on that property in a long time.

I love food plots but there will be lots of native browse that comes up that the deer will enjoy. And best of all, it will be free.

 

[Barndog56]

No till and no herbicide is a pretty lofty goal. Not tilling is the easy part, but without herbicides my plots would eventually be a grass field. I'm getting by with clethodim every 3,rd year to fight off the grasses. Broadleaf weeds don't bother me. Letting them grow has been the easiest way to get rid of them.

 

[bigboreblr]

When we speak of no till or no herbicides, this is maintenance. What you think are the intial needs. Do you need to level out ruts, rock picking, do some brush control.

Roundup and the trees are not going to mix too well. Might not kill the trees, but could kill it some dry years. This is roundup, some thing don't hurt trees, but not many. I like that cozyness of some trees. If the deer feel wierd, they can hide behind it istead of running farther away. I usually make trails with a small little staging area with my plots, like a little brushy ubby hole before they enter. They go stay there a few mintes and address what is or is not going on while safely looking into their open area they want to go in.

Planters don't always work well without initial tillage. A set of discs or harrow is a good investment. If you have little rocks, roots, and easy soil, that planter might go through.

IT seems like your looking for good deer forage, any other interests in the area? Pheasant cover, Rabbits? Soybeans general mean tillage, weed control, and use of fertilizer. However, I usually go for more desireable crops the year I do tillage. For me thats usually some kind of beans like mung or cowpeas, turnips, winter peas, and usally mixed in with clover and cereal grains.

How much can you tolerate weeds and lower forage. A few years down the road, you miss the nce dense plots you had. Having a well kept mix of cereal grains, clovers, with some brassicas can be maintained for a few years with tillage or spraying. To keep it past 3 years or so, your going to have to redo the plot, or maintain the grasses and weeds with herbcidie. Likely 2,4db, roundup, or clethodim. clethodim is the only one that doesn't bther trees. regular 2,4d can kill trees. Never used 2,4db, folks like it to maintain clover plots. But i suspect it damages trees.

To keep nice plots going for year and years, your going to have to do both. I usually do the clover n grains for 3 years, then nuke it with roundup, till it lightly, then start again. I am on year 4 of my plot at home, likely wont spray because apple trees are next to them now. Or, I will carefully pick the day to do it.