neighbor stole my dirt to fix his dam, advice sought

[willy]

On Sept. 29 the neighbor called me and told me he was going to fix his dam. He is a 70 plus fellow that used to farm the field the dam is on but now rents it out.

He would always come out to mow the fence edges and dam top. I warned him two years ago that his dam was washing a hole on the east side and he should not drive on it anymore as the hole was as big as his tractor and he would go into it. He appreciated the heads up and that was the last I heard from him about the dam.

Now back to Sept. 29th. He told me he was going to fix it and wanted to let me know that the contractor said the trees along our mutual fence had to be taken out. I agreed to let him take them out but that was it. I wanted to meet with him about it in he next couple days but he was not able to meet me then and I was not able to meet at the earliest, today. I had to leave town for the week but told him I wanted to meet with him about the dam when I got back.

I go to look at the dam site today and see that he has removed more trees than the fence line, and taken an area of at least 60' by 80' of my hillside to fill in the hole and build up the dam. I am so steaming pissed right now I really had to concentrate not to drive to his house and let it rip. My thoughts are this is going to have to go through legal processes, ie., lawsuit.

There is nothing on paper saying what I agreed or he agreed to just for your information.

Does anyone have some advice they wish to share.

Thanks.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Sorry, but always get everything in writing. You gave him a inch, he took a mile.

Never trust a cat skinner!

 

[Bill]

Unless he was standing there, Chances are he has no clue the operated took the dirt off you.
Bet the operator saw the hillside and decided it was the easiest place to get the dirt from. Heck of a lot easier to fill a bucket from a hill then dragging dirt from flat ground.

But maybe he's a rotten old bastard. You know him, I don't.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

I would estimate how many loads of dirt he took plus timber value put a dollar amount on it and send him a bill. I would tell him refusal to pay will result in a law suit. Although I would prolly not get lawyers involved. They share the same address as the devil if you ask me
Fill dirt is 110/load and top soil is 220/load in these parts.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I would estimate how many loads of dirt he took plus timber value put a dollar amount on it and send him a bill. I would tell him refusal to pay will result in a law suit.

Yup.

 

[MRBB]

my 2 cents
do you care about the future?
as in, you are neighbors, so, down the road things might be BAD from here out
if you kill a deer and it runs onto his side, it can NO longer be retrievable without pay back?
is the costs of the fight worth the outcome
this is a UP to you to decide deal

next, NOT sure where this is at/
here in PA< I am currently buying fill(300 ton the past 2 weeks)
at a $160 a tri axle load delivered
to offer up a price on things

IF I was you I would try going easy with a conversation between the two of you and see if he is willing to MAYBE try and make things better here
at least give him the chance
that is again if your trying to keep the peace for the future's sake !
if you DON"T, going to him ansd saying I want this $$$ much, and if NOT I am going to sue you ,
is IMO m a BAD Idea
if your going to go down that road, just GO there Don't give him a chance to get prepared

contact your local law enforcement, and have them write up a report, show them the damages, and the missing property(dirt/tree's)
he can then cite the neighbor for trespassing, and steeling your property
you can use having him arrested as leverage to come up with a solution you can live with.

If he is going to fight you, he is going to fight you,
so your better off getting all the cards you can on your side before you go knowing on his door!

this is seldom a good outcome here, as damages are already done
its NO , either go all out, or ??

IF you want you can also try talking to an attorney first too?
won't be free, but if you do sue, you can add on your costs to so so in the suit!
as laws are different every where
but if it was me, I rather KNOW before going after him where I stand!

a police report can be done ASAP< and sooner the better !

 

[BigJ]

Rent a dozer and put it back


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dennis Duffy]

That takes a lot of Brass to do something like that. I would seek legal advice to see what your options are. Maybe a Lawyer on here will give you some free advice?

 

[kl9]

Spend the $200-$300 to speak with a lawyer first and go from there.

Getting a police report is a good idea too. Have them take pictures sooner than later.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Let me tell you from personal experience, you should talk to several lawyers, not just one, before you file any lawsuit!!!! There is no guarantee you will win, and if you don't, you may be paying that guy a pile of attorneys fees!

My buddy and I just went through a lawsuit, where a guy sued us thinking we would just settle out of court to make the lawsuit go away. That did not happen. We drug this guy through three years of hell and he spent over 20 grand on lawyers fees. So did we to prove a point. He ended up paying us to get the lawsuit settled. Be careful as You may meet up with a guy like me.....

I would go talk to the guy first, and tell him what happened, and you are not happy. See what he will do for you first, if anything. Good Luck!

 

[Tree Spud]

On Sept. 29 the neighbor called me and told me he was going to fix his dam. He is a 70 plus fellow that used to farm the field the dam is on but now rents it out.

He would always come out to mow the fence edges and dam top. I warned him two years ago that his dam was washing a hole on the east side and he should not drive on it anymore as the hole was as big as his tractor and he would go into it. He appreciated the heads up and that was the last I heard from him about the dam.

Now back to Sept. 29th. He told me he was going to fix it and wanted to let me know that the contractor said the trees along our mutual fence had to be taken out. I agreed to let him take them out but that was it. I wanted to meet with him about it in he next couple days but he was not able to meet me then and I was not able to meet at the earliest, today. I had to leave town for the week but told him I wanted to meet with him about the dam when I got back.

I go to look at the dam site today and see that he has removed more trees than the fence line, and taken an area of at least 60' by 80' of my hillside to fill in the hole and build up the dam. I am so steaming pissed right now I really had to concentrate not to drive to his house and let it rip. My thoughts are this is going to have to go through legal processes, ie., lawsuit.

There is nothing on paper saying what I agreed or he agreed to just for your information.

Does anyone have some advice they wish to share.

Thanks.

Some observations ...

• Cutting trees and removing a fence ... big issues.
• Disrupting a shoreline leading to erosion and run-off.
• Removing earth around and near a wetland/stream area in a very big issue and needs permitting.

I would contact the DNR, and any other state agency and ask some questions ( anonymously) to get a feel for how they would respond to this situation. I am pretty sure that they would have a huge problem with this unless there was a permit.

Make sure you take lots of pictures. I would then send certified letters to the farmer and any others involved including the land owner and contractor who did the work. Advise them of the issues and notify them you are going to have an DNR wetland/environmental audit.

No one wants the DNR involved in an issue like this, it would be a bigger issue to them than being drawn into a lawsuit potentially.

Forget friendship, he screwed you and hopes you will be a roll over. Talk to an attorney as they can help with writing and sending the letter.

Good luck.

 

[willy]

Thanks all for your thoughts. You all make some very good points. After stewing for a few hours and doing some good physical work my blood pressure has gone down.:)

I am not talking to the neighbor till I talk to lawyers. As Mobuck stated there's nothing in writing and he can't prove one thing he wants to say I said or didn't say and in the same way, I can't prove my side either.

I took over 50 pics. He changed how the dam drains and how the water now drains off of a section of his property onto my land instead of into his dam. I truly think he is screwed. I can get sideways like you Mobuck if he wants to go that route. My "finance committee" has given me the go ahead to go for the throat, whatever it takes.

After I get done talking to lawyers and seeing what my next move is. I may talk to the neighbor about an permanent legal easement(also added to my land's legal description) that I want on his land that would give me access to my property from the south to be able to hunt northerly winds and access my east side for any other reason. If he wants to save himself some time and money and agree to my terms then I will end my pursuit of litigation.

He is a crotchety old timer and always tries to wring blood out of a turnip so it will probably get interesting.

 

[willy]

I want to seed my side of the imaginary fence line asap to get something growing as it is highly erodible the way it sits now. Would rye work for this now?

 

[MRBB]

also again keep in mind, when a trespasser TAKES something off your land that is what's called "Criminal Trespass"
in MOST places
and that is a felony, and can cause him some major issue's
all the more so if he is a gun owner, as he will NOT be allowed to own a firearm afterwards!
and can effect him in more ways if he has to get rid of a collection of arms!
I would get the police there ASAP< , so this way a report at least can be made and doesn't show your planning to WAIT to cause him issue's, or he can say well you changed your mind or??
as in MOST crime,s FEW will WAIT to report, so, looks a little off if you do!

 

[kl9]

Thanks all for your thoughts. You all make some very good points. After stewing for a few hours and doing some good physical work my blood pressure has gone down.:)

I am not talking to the neighbor till I talk to lawyers. As Mobuck stated there's nothing in writing and he can't prove one thing he wants to say I said or didn't say and in the same way, I can't prove my side either.

I took over 50 pics. He changed how the dam drains and how the water now drains off of a section of his property onto my land instead of into his dam. I truly think he is screwed. I can get sideways like you Mobuck if he wants to go that route. My "finance committee" has given me the go ahead to go for the throat, whatever it takes.

After I get done talking to lawyers and seeing what my next move is. I may talk to the neighbor about an permanent legal easement(also added to my land's legal description) that I want on his land that would give me access to my property from the south to be able to hunt northerly winds and access my east side for any other reason. If he wants to save himself some time and money and agree to my terms then I will end my pursuit of litigation.

He is a crotchety old timer and always tries to wring blood out of a turnip so it will probably get interesting.

Just a thought regarding him proving one thing vs another. Watch what you say/reveal on this PUBLIC forum!

 

[Bill]

Rye will work for now, get it down soon. Take pics before you seed it.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

You guys are jumping on the lawsuit train way to fast, missing something he said in the OP.
Willy told him it was ok remove trees on the fence line, one could assume the reason for that was to push the dirt under those trees up to the dam. Once again careful with all the lawsuit talk!

 

[Bucks&Ducks]

My 2 cents. Talk to law enforcement first. Let them do the investigation work. If they find wrongdoing he will likely be charged with repairing or paying for any damages. If nothing comes of it, then pursue the lawsuit.

Litigation generally ends with lawyers, experts and investigators getting paid and plaintiff getting whatever is left over.

 

[Bucks&Ducks]

How much value are we talking here? This might be more fitting of small claims court. I think you are SOL on the trees unless it is egregious since you gave him the okay.

Further you need to be a little careful. Is the dam a shared border or is it completely on his land? If it is on border, you may share responsibility for maintaining the dam. If that is the case you are probably going to have an uphill battle even if he didn't have permission to use your dirt.

 

[willy]

mobuck, you are correct I gave him permission to remove trees on the dam but not 108 feet up the hill from dam nor two to three ft of soil from 80' on my side of the fence along that 108' to fill in the dam nor permission to change the lay of the land so that water now runs onto my land as before it ran into the dam. The fence line dirt was considerably higher than the neighbors property from decades of farming/erosion compared to my side which had been brome and cedars for decades and then switchgrass and trees since '07.

The trees taken out were 20' cedars and others that served as a fine screen from the road poachers but now it is wide open and it will take a long time to get that huge void filled.

His side of the fence is a terraced bean field. He hardly touched his field for dirt compared to mine, basically enough to make it now drain over to my side instead into the dam like it used to do.

The area I live in, every field is terraced as it is highly erodible and we average over 30" rain a year.

Perhaps it will go better than I'm expecting but I'm preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.