MN CWD Hunt

[sandbur]

So, what should be done if testing in the Dassel areas or Merrifield area shows one or two positive deer out of 500 tested?

I favor wild herd reduction and testing. Do not manage for older age structure.

What about the two game farms? Buy them out? Double fence and who pays for it?

 

[SD51555]

So, what should be done if testing in the Dassel areas or Merrifield area shows one or two positive deer out of 500 tested?

I favor wild herd reduction and testing. Do not manage for older age structure.

What about the two game farms? Buy them out? Double fence and who pays for it?

I think the unfortunate reality is the farmer should pay for it. All of it. Any other farmer or business would be stuck with the bills to prevent harm to their neighbors or the environment. I don't see how CWD management would be any different from manure management, fuel spill mitigation, herbicide or insecticide storage, noxious weed control, etc. They certainly wouldn't be the first business to get hit with the heavy back hand of enterprise killing regulation.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I totally disagree with out of season management. For one, heard density is extremely skewed this time of year and doesn't reflect what the density is in a given area during the growing season. The harvest needs to be increased during the hunting season.

There are way to many deer in some areas in SE MN. I would give out more tags. If the dnr believes bucks may be to blame for the spread, allow mn hunters to shoot two bucks like many other states do. If that's to liberal then allow a hunter to shoot 1 buck for every 2-3 doe harvested with no limit. I would not lift the APR because many of the yearling bucks down here carry four points on one side anyway. What would be wrong with an early muzzleloader season like many other states hold? Reduce numbers and take rut produced stresses off of the animals.

 

[kl9]

I totally disagree with out of season management. For one, heard density is extremely skewed this time of year and doesn't reflect what the density is in a given area during the growing season. The harvest needs to be increased during the hunting season.

There are way to many deer in some areas in SE MN. I would give out more tags. If the dnr believes bucks may be to blame for the spread, allow mn hunters to shoot two bucks like many other states do. If that's to liberal then allow a hunter to shoot 1 buck for every 2-3 doe harvested with no limit. I would not lift the APR because many of the yearling bucks down here carry four points on one side anyway. What would be wrong with an early muzzleloader season like many other states hold? Reduce numbers and take rut produced stresses off of the animals.

Where are you getting the idea that there are too many deer? Look at densities in the region and then compare them to densities east of the Mississippi in nearly identical habitat. Carrying capacity is not an issue. In some areas the numbers are identical to WI and some potentially slightly higher, but certainly not too many deer.

Edit: I should say there are pockets of too many deer, but certainly not near a DPA level issue.

 

[bowhunternw]

What about the fact that science has shown prions can be taken up by crops. Farmer A in SE MN gets timely rains this year and his alfalfa grows amazingly well. Farmer B in central MN faces drought conditions and has to buy alfalfa....Farmer A is happy to sell him some.

CWD is here to stay I'm afraid. Between deer farms, farm crops, scavengers spreading carcasses (and our DNR from the looks of a previous news story) and wandering yearling bucks...it's just a matter of time.

It's all about how many millions of dollars we spend along the way. There's a push to commit more deer license dollars to deer management/habitat. Do we really think that any such funds won't be "re-directed" for the CWD war?

While I disagree with your do nothing approach you do bring up some good points.

Say on these game farms, if the herd is infected are they spreading it without animals ever leaving the enclosure? Do they haul manure and other waste out? What if they spread manure on a hay field and just contaminated the whole thing. I would imagine even the most cautious guys haul stuff in and out without ever thinking about it.

 

[wiscwhip]

Seriously, a guy could probably spread it by getting some urine soaked mud between the lugs on his boots walking around inside the pen(or truck tires when they enter the pen) and then leaving the enclosure to track the prions who knows where?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Where are you getting the idea that there are too many deer? Look at densities in the region and then compare them to densities east of the Mississippi in nearly identical habitat. Carrying capacity is not an issue. In some areas the numbers are identical to WI and some potentially slightly higher, but certainly not too many deer.

Edit: I should say there are pockets of too many deer, but certainly not near a DPA level issue.

It is not hard to drive around the Root River Valley and surrounding areas and see fields with 20+ deer in them. It is to many. Below carrying capacity? Obviously. The only way to have more deer than the land will support is by feeding them. I also wouldn't go saying we have low deer numbers by comparing us to a state where CWD has been rampant for over a decade.

We all love seeing a parade of deer when we are out hunting. How many is enough? How many is to many? It's a hard question to answer. I do know that it is irrational and also irresponsible as land managers/hunters to say that there is not enough deer because we aren't approaching carrying capacity. (Not saying you said that is what we should be striving for) I also believe as stewards of the land we have an obligation to make sure enough animals are being harvested every year to maintain a healthy heard.

 

[McLovin]

It is not hard to drive around the Root River Valley and surrounding areas and see fields with 20+ deer in them. It is too many.

How many is enough? How many is too many? It's a hard question to answer.

Apparently it's easy for you to answer. 20 in one field is too many.

 

[kl9]

It is not hard to drive around the Root River Valley and surrounding areas and see fields with 20+ deer in them. It is to many. Below carrying capacity? Obviously. The only way to have more deer than the land will support is by feeding them. I also wouldn't go saying we have low deer numbers by comparing us to a state where CWD has been rampant for over a decade.

We all love seeing a parade of deer when we are out hunting. How many is enough? How many is to many? It's a hard question to answer. I do know that it is irrational and also irresponsible as land managers/hunters to say that there is not enough deer because we aren't approaching carrying capacity. (Not saying you said that is what we should be striving for) I also believe as stewards of the land we have an obligation to make sure enough animals are being harvested every year to maintain a healthy heard.

Show me 1 study that shows high DPSM causes CWD. WI has high densities but so do good portions of MO/IA/IL.

20 deer in 1 field??? Wow the sky is falling. Drive through many states and you will see that. Drive through Buffalo Co and it is nothing to see 100 in a field.

I sure hope you don't mean 20+ deer in a field this time of year. That is a no brainer given the deer are in wintering yards.

Yes, we should keep a healthy herd, but we are far from having too many deer.

 

[Terrific_tom]

It is not hard to drive around the Root River Valley and surrounding areas and see fields with 20+ deer in them. It is to many. Below carrying capacity? Obviously. The only way to have more deer than the land will support is by feeding them. I also wouldn't go saying we have low deer numbers by comparing us to a state where CWD has been rampant for over a decade.

We all love seeing a parade of deer when we are out hunting. How many is enough? How many is to many? It's a hard question to answer. I do know that it is irrational and also irresponsible as land managers/hunters to say that there is not enough deer because we aren't approaching carrying capacity. (Not saying you said that is what we should be striving for) I also believe as stewards of the land we have an obligation to make sure enough animals are being harvested every year to maintain a healthy heard.

It depends what time of the year that you are seeing the 20 deer in a field. If it is in the spring before the deer have dispersed from wintering spots, that could be all the deer in a square mile or more. As far as having lower numbers than Wisconsin, how did that work for keeping CWD out? Some of what you stated sounds like Minnesota DNR rhetoric. Produce some real numbers, not made up numbers and maybe Minnesota deer hunters will work with the DNR

 

[sandbur]

Boot lugs, tire treads....who knows.

Once an area has CWD prions, it has them. Eliminate every darn deer for 10 years, then re-introduce them...and they get the disease (that's been shown to happen, don't have the link but the research is out there).

I'm not going to participate in another "kill 'em all" government led war on deer. It makes zero sense. If we're going to spend millions, how about we simply make testing available for everyone who wants it? That way, the DNR could monitor the disease and we'd at least have the knowledge that we aren't feeding CWD prions to our families and friends.

Some think double fencing of deer farms is the answer. It would help, but what about spring run off? Boot lugs, whatever. Once you got it, you got it.

 

[McLovin]

\

Hey, Lou got an account on H-T o_O

Sneaky, too. Complete with intentional grammatical errors. I wanted to print off that post and take a red pen to it.

Today I learned I'm irrational and irresponsible.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Show me 1 study that shows high DPSM causes CWD. WI has high densities but so do good portions of MO/IA/IL.

20 deer in 1 field??? Wow the sky is falling. Drive through many states and you will see that. Drive through Buffalo Co and it is nothing to see 100 in a field.

I sure hope you don't mean 20+ deer in a field this time of year. That is a no brainer given the deer are in wintering yards.

Yes, we should keep a healthy herd, but we are far from having too many deer.

A study, seriously? Even if there was one by the DNR we would be talking about the incompetence of the staffs ability to add, count, cover up factual info to push their agenda through, or who knows what.

I never said that high DPSM causes CWD. It most certainly contributes to the SPREAD of it IF their is an infected animal in the heard.

I don't know where you people are getting the idea that I am some pro DNR libtard in favor of what the DNR's plan with CWD is. I like the let nature take its course (to a certain extent) style of management. I was simply stating an opinion that there are more than enough deer and that the harvest should be increased by hunters with the best intentions of trying to keep the deer herd as healthy as it can be. If landowners and hunters aren't willing to shoot a few more deer to keep the population in check don't bitch about the DNR TRYING to do something about it.

What is your EXPERT opinion on what is to many deer?

I have been in sales and have run a delivery/installation truck that has taken me all over the tri-state area so you dont have to tell me how many more deer there are in Buffalo County WI., the area surrounding New Albin Ia., the Wiscoy Valley of Mn., etc.,etc. That statement is not me trying to say that I'm an expert on deer anything. It is just me saying I have put on hundreds of thousands of miles traveling around the area (all seasons and time of day). I would be willing to bet that if you would walk through some of the farms with those high deer numbers you would notice one thing in common, high browse lines.

Sorry, not sorry about the spelling or punctuation.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

It depends what time of the year that you are seeing the 20 deer in a field. If it is in the spring before the deer have dispersed from wintering spots, that could be all the deer in a square mile or more. As far as having lower numbers than Wisconsin, how did that work for keeping CWD out? Some of what you stated sounds like Minnesota DNR rhetoric. Produce some real numbers, not made up numbers and maybe Minnesota deer hunters will work with the DNR

Who's REAL numbers?

 

[McLovin]

Something better than 20 deer in a field is to(o) many.

And "whose" is the word you're looking for.

 

[buckvelvet]

And "whose" is the word you're looking for.

This somehow reminded me of the man that speaks in riddles.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I got it! The new member will stop being part of what obviously is above him.

I was told not to throw rocks if you live in a glass house. These forums are all the same. Their a few people that have some thing worth while to contribute, a few people that are new and passionate about hunting/land management that come to learn, and a bunch of elitist pricks that have too much time on they're hands and have no thing better to do then stand in the way of healthy dialog.

 

[buckvelvet]

I got it! The new member will stop being part of what obviously is above him.

I was told not to throw rocks if you live in a glass house. These forums are all the same. Their a few people that have some thing worth while to contribute, a few people that are new and passionate about hunting/land management that come to learn, and a bunch of elitist pricks that have too much time on they're hands and have no thing better to do then stand in the way of healthy dialog.

Generally anything about MN gets interesting on a hunting/habitat related forum because they divide is so great in its participants. One could argue that if you actively participate in such a conversation that you cannot automatically clear yourself of all charges.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Generally anything about MN gets interesting on a hunting/habitat related forum because they divide is so great in its participants. One could argue that if you actively participate in such a conversation that you cannot automatically clear yourself of all charges.

Thanks for the heads up on anything MN. I know exactly what you are talking about because of experience with other forums and know the area I can take a red pen and circle to let me know to stay clear of.

As a side note what has been said has been said. I'm not looking to be cleared of anything and fortunately my brain will not remember the things the holier than thou crowd has to say. God bless ADD.

 

[McLovin]

You made a blanket statement that 20 deer in a field is too many, without any context. After that you called anybody who wants their deer numbers near capacity irrational and irresponsible. Then, when you got called out on it you decided that you wanted to have a "healthy dialog".

OK. I've hunted whitetails in North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas and Minnesota. I've also driven a motor vehicle while in those states, not sure why that's relevant but I felt I needed to add it. I can say with great confidence stemming from my personal experience that MN manages for and currently has the lowest deer densities of any of those states. I can say that on the 300 acres we own in Kansas we probably have close to 50 DPSM due to the habitat improvements we've made (KSDNR says 30-35). The area surrounding us is 70% ag fields, less habitat than most places in MN. We have no browse line, our deer won't even eat brassicas after 7 years of planting them because there is plenty to eat everywhere else.

The MN DNR has brainwashed the public into believing 20 DPSM is way too many. It's not, for a lot of places with great habitat 50 DPSM isn't too many. They're going to continue spreading that BS with your help, though, and that's why we get a little defensive. Or offensive, depending on your viewpoint.