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MN bills introduced to allow crossbows during archery season.

Troubles Trees said:
Do old bucks taste better? I always felt older deer were more gamey and tougher so I would answer no, they want a 1 1/2 year old spike in the freezer.
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[Edit: misread your prior post, you did answer my question] You don't think having more bucks that are less pressured results in it being easier to shoot a meat buck? How does that work?

Younger deer probably taste better but what percentage of hunters if presented with a spike and a booner standing side by side are going to shoot the spike? Don't kid yourself. "That's why we dont let em grow up around here, they dont taste good anymore".

[Edit again: i recall that we've discussed this before. Maybe some regional differences you've seen that I haven't. I've never met a hunter who's passing a spike to shoot a booner and I'd wager a lot of dough the majority wouldn't]
 
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In oklahoma, I originally didn't like the xbow regulations being opened up. I still couldn't help but buy one, (hard to resist new hunting gear) go thru all the setup and practice, then harvesting a buck, etc...i had to go thru the whole routine to fully understand the main reason I was having trouble accepting it initially.
I had thought that all the years of honing my recurve and compound skills were being diminished with the addition of the xbow, because it was going to be such a badass killing machine that anyone could use out of the box and be just as good as me. What I found was almost the opposite. The xbow didn't stretch my shot distance out like I thought. Even though some aspects of using one was way easier than regular bows, it had enough disadvantages to wash out the advantages. Most importantly tho, it's still hunting. You still have to have the skills to get a deer close enough to take a kill shot. The xbow didn't change my mind about what my harvest expectation was. Didn't cause me to start shooting at youngsters when I was after the muy grande, etc etc...
It turns out that my initial hesitation was simply my pride. And still today, my pride won't let me group that buck i killed with the xbow to be in the same class as one's I've taken with my recurve. But then again, I don't group the ones I've taken with my compound in the same arena as the recurve kills. I have to compartmentalize the results to make it right in my mind.
 
Wind Gypsy said:
I notice that you didn't answer my question, why is that?

Younger deer probably taste better but what percentage of hunters if presented with a spike and a booner standing side by side are going to shoot the spike? Don't kid yourself. "That's why we dont let em grow up around here, they dont taste good anymore"..
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Can’t eat antlers is one I’ve heard in the past. I just roll my eyes.
 
I bought a compound bow for my 55 yr old wife ten years ago. Gave it to her Christmas morn, we sighted it in that afternoon. She had never even pulled a bow back in her life. She killed a deer with it the next evening. Yes, crossbows are accurate - and easier to shoot accurately. But, it isnt difficult for most people to shoot a compound with deer killing accuracy. If you have a rifle that groups .5” at a 100 yards and your buddy’s shoots 1.5” at a hundred yards - under most common eastern deer hunting conditions - do you think you are going to kill a lot more deer than your buddy?

To me - and I own a Ravin Crossbow and have hunted with a compound and recurve bow for 55 years - the long range accuracy of a crossbow is impressive - but not really that applicable for hunting. It is pretty easy to learn to shoot a compound to gain hunting accuracy. In our state, crossbow hunters take 7% of the total harvest - vertical bow users take 9%. I remember years ago - late 70's maybe - when Georgia was the last state to legalize compound bows.. We lived there. My dad - who was born in 1926 - called compound bows "cheaters" - because they were so easy to use compared to a recurve. He is right, too - as most folks who have shot a recurve or long bow will attest. This discussion is nothing new.

I think a lot of folks who are using crossbows previously used vertical bows. I now use a crossbow - not so much because it is so accurate - but because I dont what to carry a climber and all the associated bowhunting gear 1/2 mile back in the woods. I carry my crossbow, a butt bad strapped to my belt, and sit on the ground and hunt. The crossbow allows this because you dont have to move so much to shoot. one. I kill 75% fewer deer with my crossbow than I did my compound.
 
Wind Gypsy said:
[Edit: misread your prior post, you did answer my question] You don't think having more bucks that are less pressured results in it being easier to shoot a meat buck? How does that work?

Younger deer probably taste better but what percentage of hunters if presented with a spike and a booner standing side by side are going to shoot the spike? Don't kid yourself. "That's why we dont let em grow up around here, they dont taste good anymore".

[Edit again: i recall that we've discussed this before. Maybe some regional differences you've seen that I haven't. I've never met a hunter who's passing a spike to shoot a booner and I'd wager a lot of dough the majority wouldn't]
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You are really stretching the debate to fit your ideology friend. I think if 2 deer are standing side by side and one is a booner everyone would shoot the booner. If you are meat hunting are you passing the first 1 1/2 to wait for a booner? Big difference, and now we are no longer debating crossbows.
 
People act like any restriction on opportunity is an affront to the common man meat hunter. As if you could never have too much opportunity for the resource. I'm curious @Troubles Trees and @bueller, where would you draw the line? Rifle season year round? Do you think if we had unrestricted harvest of deer, the common man who wanted to spend a day or two in the stand to get a meat buck would be better or worse off? I say he'd be a lot worse off as he's probably not fillin the freezer in that 1 or 2 days like he used to.

I'll say it again - I may be completely off base on what actual negative impacts would be with crossbows and that's a valid argument. But to write my concerns off as strictly trophy lust as if more bucks getting killed doesn't impact hunting experience for everyone not contributing to the more bucks getting killed is just wrong.
 
Troubles Trees said:
You are really stretching the debate to fit your ideology friend. I think if 2 deer are standing side by side and one is a booner everyone would shoot the booner. If you are meat hunting are you passing the first 1 1/2 to wait for a booner? Big difference, and now we are no longer debating crossbows.
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I'm stretching? You just said that meat hunters don't benefit from more bucks being around and they don't benefit from the ease of hunting in IA due to reduced pressure and balanced herd because they just want a 1.5 year old.
 
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Wind Gypsy said:
People act like any restriction on opportunity is an affront to the common man meat hunter. As if you could never have too much opportunity for the resource. I'm curious @Troubles Trees and @bueller, where would you draw the line? Rifle season year round? Do you think if we had unrestricted harvest of deer, the common man who wanted to spend a day or two in the stand to get a meat buck would be better or worse off? I say he'd be a lot worse off as he's probably not fillin the freezer in that 1 or 2 days like he used to.

I'll say it again - I may be completely off base on what actual negative impacts would be with crossbows and that's a valid argument. But to write my concerns off as strictly trophy lust as if more bucks getting killed doesn't impact hunting experience for everyone not contributing to the more bucks getting killed is just wrong.
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I would never advocate for rifles year round or the unrestricted harvest of deer. I also take more pride in shooting a six pointer with a crossbow from my open stand than I would shooting a booner with a rifle at 350 yards from an enclosed blind.
 
bueller said:
I would never advocate for rifles year round or the unrestricted harvest of deer. I also take more pride in shooting a six pointer with a crossbow from my open stand than I would shooting a booner with a rifle at 350 yards from an enclosed blind.
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So where would you draw the line? When would it be too easy to kill a deer?
 
Wind Gypsy said:
I'll say it again - I may be completely off base on what actual negative impacts would be with crossbows and that's a valid argument.
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You aren't off base at all, you have an opinion and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I am not upset about your opinion and I hope you aren't with mine. You are stretching from the original conversation of how terrible crossbows are for the deer herd and migrating to more of a hunting season structure and tag allotment questions.

As ridiculous as your questions might be, lets discuss. Rifle (or any weapon) season year round is bad for the deer and I wouldn't agree with at all. besides deer taste terrible when harvested in the summer lol Unrestricted harvest limits? I am a big no, that is what killed off the deer herd everywhere and most people never saw any deer in the 50's & 60's because of it. I remember older friends telling stories here in NY about someone finding a deer track and it went through the town like gossip.

Look I really don't have a dog in this, my hunting won't change because of your opinion or mine for that matter. I simply think crossbows aren't the devil and going to devastate trophy hunting everywhere. I am only familiar with what goes on in my state and what we saw was less compound harvests and more crossbow harvests. I would have to look up the numbers again but what the data said was people that hunted with compounds were suddenly hunting with a crossbow. It did add few new hunters overall but it wasn't like suddenly all bow season harvests doubled or went through the roof.

If you think crossbows are more accurate, easier to shoot, require less practice and makes hunting easier then I would think you would want them if nothing more than having less wounded deer which equals less people in the woods and more bucks overall. Can we agree on that?
 
Trophy hunters cause more damage to the sport of hunting than crossbows ever will... change my mind :)

For the record I am a Trophy hunter.
 
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Wind Gypsy said:
So where would you draw the line? When would it be too easy to kill a deer?
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Well, a zero sit is not uncommon at all by me. So when others say they see 8, 10, 12, or 29 each hunt that's too easy even if they are all baldies.
 
I believe deer will taste great in the summer?
 
Troubles Trees said:
You aren't off base at all, you have an opinion and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I am not upset about your opinion and I hope you aren't with mine. You are stretching from the original conversation of how terrible crossbows are for the deer herd and migrating to more of a hunting season structure and tag allotment questions.
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The conversation has always been about season structure, I.E. the change to it allowing crossbows. Further, it was never about how "terrible" they are for the herd but rather in MN's case, the season structure already makes for a lesser hunting experience than all of our neighboring states so I tend to lean towards not furthering that end even if it's not dramatically.
Troubles Trees said:
As ridiculous as your questions might be, lets discuss. Rifle (or any weapon) season year round is bad for the deer and I wouldn't agree with at all. besides deer taste terrible when harvested in the summer lol Unrestricted harvest limits? I am a big no, that is what killed off the deer herd everywhere and most people never saw any deer in the 50's & 60's because of it. I remember older friends telling stories here in NY about someone finding a deer track and it went through the town like gossip.
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I guess it is hard for you to answer my primary intended question on where to draw the line as it more pertains to MN and you don't hunt here or have the whole picture. Where would you draw that line in NY? Do you think they should offer more liberal rifle, crossbow, or muzzleloader regulations than currently exist in your state?
Troubles Trees said:
Look I really don't have a dog in this, my hunting won't change because of your opinion or mine for that matter. I simply think crossbows aren't the devil and going to devastate trophy hunting everywhere. I am only familiar with what goes on in my state and what we saw was less compound harvests and more crossbow harvests. I would have to look up the numbers again but what the data said was people that hunted with compounds were suddenly hunting with a crossbow. It did add few new hunters overall but it wasn't like suddenly all bow season harvests doubled or went through the roof.
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"thinking crossbows are the devil" isn't representative of anything I've stated.
Troubles Trees said:
If you think crossbows are more accurate, easier to shoot, require less practice and makes hunting easier then I would think you would want them if nothing more than having less wounded deer which equals less people in the woods and more bucks overall. Can we agree on that?
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That doesn't make any sense. How can you conclude more hunters with more effective weapons results in more bucks in the woods? That's the same logic as saying more hunters in the woods with rifles would result in more bucks in the woods.
 
bueller said:
Well, a zero sit is not uncommon at all by me. So when others say they see 8, 10, 12, or 29 each hunt that's too easy even if they are all baldies.
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So if I interpret this correctly, you don't have a boilerplate line in the regulations but generally keep regs open enough so sufficient numbers of deer get killed that nobody's seeing a bunch of deer every sit?
 
Wind Gypsy said:
So if I interpret this correctly, you don't have a boilerplate line in the regulations but generally keep regs open enough so sufficient numbers of deer get killed that nobody's seeing a bunch of deer every sit?
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Not accurate. But crossbows are not too blame for the lack of deer in my neck of the woods.
 
While this is bill is being introduced, why not introduce APR in areas where they need to manage deer numbers? People not being allowed to shoot a fork buck may force them into shooting a doe. If this is an attempt to reduce deer numbers, the only way to effectively do that is nudge people into willingly shooting does. Quality of habitat and herd health is degraded in my area where the buck to doe harvest ratio is 2:1. CWD is in two border counties, so not managing doe numbers could have consequences.

I would support the xbow bill if they made it into a management tool and maybe had a 'special season' for them from september 1-15 or whatever for antlerless harvest with xbows etc. Otherwise, more people with easier to use weapons will likely just increase buck harvest and not make a dent in overpopulation efforts.
 
ALL YOUR CHILDREN ARE GOING TO DIE IF CROSSBOWS ARE ALLOWED IN THE ARCHERY SEASON!

Look at Ohio... our deer population has all but collapsed in the last 30+ years of crossbow hunting...

*heavy on the snark*
 
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