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MN bills introduced to allow crossbows during archery season.

What is ironic is our DNR wants you believe that a crossbow is a "bow" to be used in the archery season, yet they charge an additional permit fee to use a crossbow in the archery season because it is a special weapon.
 
Tree Spud said:
What is ironic is our DNR wants you believe that a crossbow is a "bow" to be used in the archery season, yet they charge an additional permit fee to use a crossbow in the archery season because it is a special weapon.
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Money offsets everything. "You guys wanna kill more bucks and consider it archery hunting? you must pay the DNR a small nominal fee to offset, for conservation". [sarcasm]
 
As I said before, crossbows in Minnesota archery season will happen sooner or later. Doesn’t matter if we like it or not.

A far more serious issue is if the deer herd will survive this winter for over 60% of the state. Things really look tough.
 
Tree Spud said:
What is ironic is our DNR wants you believe that a crossbow is a "bow" to be used in the archery season, yet they charge an additional permit fee to use a crossbow in the archery season because it is a special weapon.
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Money grubbing bastards! There isn't a fee here in NY, but you do have to carry a piece of paper that you cut out of the regulations guide that says "you read the crossbow safety info" in so many words. So basically just another thing you have to carry with your license, tags and backtag.

Weird thing here in NY and now I am curious if other states do it. You are required to carry your license, your tags, your backtag and your season harvest ticket but they can't be in the same pocket. Very few times have I been ticketed while hunting but I always kept my license and tags in my back tag holder. I got fined for that and was told I have to have the license and tags in separate pockets and none can be carried in the backtag holder. WTF sense does that make? lol The season harvest ticket is a new thing so I don't know if that has to be in yet another pocket or if I can put it with either my license or my tags.
 
Troubles Trees said:
Money grubbing bastards! There isn't a fee here in NY, but you do have to carry a piece of paper that you cut out of the regulations guide that says "you read the crossbow safety info" in so many words. So basically just another thing you have to carry with your license, tags and backtag.

Weird thing here in NY and now I am curious if other states do it. You are required to carry your license, your tags, your backtag and your season harvest ticket but they can't be in the same pocket. Very few times have I been ticketed while hunting but I always kept my license and tags in my back tag holder. I got fined for that and was told I have to have the license and tags in separate pockets and none can be carried in the backtag holder. WTF sense does that make? lol The season harvest ticket is a new thing so I don't know if that has to be in yet another pocket or if I can put it with either my license or my tags.
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what the hell? I guess that makes you an outlaw, gonna keep my eye on you!
 
Troubles Trees said:
How dramatically do you feel adding crossbows in bow season changes things in your state?
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It will vary dramatically by region and even property IMO. In much of the northwoods wolf country there are so few deer and they are so difficult to hunt that i don't see a perceptible impact to hunting. In much of central, western, and southern MN, where we are not struggling with deer population and deer sightings at all, i would expect a non-perceptible to small decrease in buck population and age class on a broad scale but a very notable decrease to hunt quality in specific locations if increased pressure comes with adding crossbows. There would be spots that never saw pressure prior to gun season that are trashed from new crossbow pressure well before rifle season. There are a lot of public land spots that are on the verge of being void of deer due to archery pressure now that are going to be completely void of deer with additional pressure added. Keep in mind, MN is a party hunting state. Guys can arrow a buck and still hunt firearm and muzzleloader season as long as they have someone else to hunt with who still have tags.

Troubles Trees said:
Our season is already 3 months long and it is too much, they claim it gives more people more opportunity to hunt but I don't see where people need 3 months to get in the woods. As you have said before, bow and muzzleloader are considered primitive weapons, but really these days they aren't, to me carrying a recurve bow and a traditional patch and roundball is primitive. Compounds these days have rangefinder sights, 80% letoff etc. and aren't primitive and neither are inline muzzleloaders but I do use both. Our Muzzleloader season is after gun season so here in Liberal NY, these people in charge are idiots lol they certainly don't care about the deer herd or anyone that owns and carries a gun.
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So it seems like you'd be in favor of limiting some of the opportunity that currently exists?

Troubles Trees said:
Adding crossbows didn't add many new hunters, it mostly moved people from using a compound bow season to using a crossbow and the people it did add were old people that gave up bow hunting (I assume because they weren't comfortable with a compound anymore) and kids but the data doesn't determine if they wouldn't have started with a compound if crossbows weren't an option.

Maybe I didn't word it correctly so let me ask you this. You don't hunt with a recurve because you would have less overall success right? For the same reason you don't hunt with aluminum arrows and a compound from the 80's that was less accurate, slow and noisy, deer jump string, it is a thing. Deer that jump string are more likely to be wounded, deer are also more likely to get wounded if you hunted with a recurve. So you don't hunt with these other things because you don't have to practice as much, you can confidently shoot further and overall you are more accurate which means you wound less deer right? Can we agree if everyone had to hunt with a recurve there would be more wounded deer which equals less deer in the woods? That was the point I was trying to convey. If people are more comfortable with a crossbow, (like you are more comfortable with, and more accurate with a compound than you are with a recurve).
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This point makes sense but I don't believe that would be the end outcome. Hunters take lots of unethical shots regardless of weapon. The fact that you hear 3-4-5 or more shots ring out in rapid succession all the time during gun season is ample evidence people are just throwing lead with some hope. The level of recklessness just increases with the weapon's capability for many IMO.
 
The sooner people realize the DNR doesn't care about older age class of bucks, the better off you will be. CWD has hit every state and the DNR is using it to try and kill off more deer, especially mature bucks.
 
Wind Gypsy said:
So it seems like you'd be in favor of limiting some of the opportunity that currently exists?
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I personally think 3 months is too long for the deer's sake, a month of bow and a month of gun seems ample to get your chances, plus I am exhausted and need a break by the end of deer season but some of that could be just me getting older. We also have an extended season that runs half way into January for doe, only but most bucks drop their antlers by then so people shooting doe are also shooting bone free bucks.

Like I said, I am a Trophy hunter after I have a doe in the freezer so I would like to see more people letting little bucks go. I would be a hypocrite if I wanted antler restrictions because I spent many years having fun piling up spikes and fork horns. I didn't care what the antlers were, I just wanted my freezer full. Today it is just my daughter and I and she fills the freezer so I go a year or 2 without shooting anything. But those are my circumstances not everyone's. My state don't care about the deer herd, they seem to just want more deer killed for whatever reason. Our hunter numbers are slowly but steadily dropping so I am all for increasing that. I would guess it is because most hunters are conservatives and conservatives have been leaving the state by huge numbers!
 
Tree Spud said:
What is ironic is our DNR wants you believe that a crossbow is a "bow" to be used in the archery season, yet they charge an additional permit fee to use a crossbow in the archery season because it is a special weapon.
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Bow vs crossbow cost the same as long as you only purchase either or. It's when you buy both it costs more. And for those thinking hmmm, no you don't get two sets of tags if you purchase both.
 
Brian662 said:
This just isn't accurate. Don't be distracted by the scales, be distracted by the sum of the two numbers.

In the seven years pre-crossbow, 2007-2013, the antlered buck harvest with a bow averaged 41,105 per year.

In the nine years since crossbow introduction, 2014-2022, the antlered harvest between compound and crossbows is 54,077. That's a 32% increase in antlered bucks taken during "archery" season. That is an enormous increase.

Furthermore, in the past three years, let's call them the covid years, 2020-2022, the combined harvest during "archery" season averages 60,560 antlered deer taken. This is a 48% increase since pre-crossbow. Incredibly alarming, there really is no other way to describe it.
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You have to be real careful using those 2007-2013 numbers as a baseline. The herd was decimated in the early 2000's because of other regulation changes and the ill effect of that was felt in the years following. The herd has grown in many areas since then so increased harvest is to be expected.
 
bueller said:
You have to be real careful using those 2007-2013 numbers as a baseline. The herd was decimated in the early 2000's because of other regulation changes and the ill effect of that was felt in the years following. The herd has grown in many areas since then so increased harvest is to be expected.
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It appears the antlerless harvest decreased dramatically after 2007/2008 but the antlered deer harvest was mostly unchanged.

Earn a buck ran from 1996-2011 in various areas of the state, is this what you're referring to?
Also the reintroduction of wolves came during that same time period.
 
gunther89 said:
The sooner people realize the DNR doesn't care about older age class of bucks, the better off you will be. CWD has hit every state and the DNR is using it to try and kill off more deer, especially mature bucks.
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The purpose of government is population reduction and thievery. I can't think of any function of big government that doesn't fall under one of those two categories.
 
SD51555 said:
The purpose of government is population reduction and thievery. I can't think of any function of big government that doesn't fall under one of those two categories.
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national defense?
 
Hoytvectrix said:
national defense?
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Paying the majority of the cost for all of NATO would fall in the thievery class. Expending our troops to fight others countries wars would fall under population reduction.
 
I know better than to dive into this one but... If it weren't for government there'd be no deer to hunt but for the biggest landowners.
 
Through my lens, everything makes sense. I can't come up with an alternative theory that even gets close.

Occam's razor.
 
Brian662 said:
It appears the antlerless harvest decreased dramatically after 2007/2008 but the antlered deer harvest was mostly unchanged.

Earn a buck ran from 1996-2011 in various areas of the state, is this what you're referring to?
Also the reintroduction of wolves came during that same time period.
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Not just earn-a-buck but unlimited doe tags for $2 a piece and gun hunting for all in October. In 2000 over 618,000 deer were harvested in the state. The doe harvest today is half that of the slaughter years. Many areas have never recovered to pre slaughter numbers while others have. The overall herd has been slow to recover but has been ticking upward. With that the buck harvest sees increases. In my area doe tags are still almost non-existent on public land, so what do the hunters shoot....any buck. Blaming crossbows while ignoring the long term effect of the early 2000's slaughter is just off. That slaughter was done without crossbows including back to back record archery harvests in 2003 (95,607) and 2004 (103,572) and 116,016 in 2007. Parts of the state will likely never recover regardless of what the numbers show.
 
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