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MN bills introduced to allow crossbows during archery season.

A point could be made that the only reason archery season is longer than rifle season is due to the difficulty to harvest an animal with one. If archery equipment becomes too efficient at killing deer then is a longer season really needed or deserved? Same with muzzleloader? Is an inline, smokeless, with a scope muzzleloader different enough from a centerfire in effectiveness to warrant a separate season? Or should there be rules that regulate that technology to insure a gap?
 
Catscratch said:
A point could be made that the only reason archery season is longer than rifle season is due to the difficulty to harvest an animal with one. If archery equipment becomes too efficient at killing deer then is a longer season really needed or deserved? Same with muzzleloader? Is an inline, smokeless, with a scope muzzleloader different enough from a centerfire in effectiveness to warrant a separate season? Or should there be rules that regulate that technology to insure a gap?
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That was the point I was trying to make in post #13 of this thread. If the MN DNR doesn't allow hunters the tags to control animal populations with the seasons/framework in place now, what good is adding a more effective weapon - crossbows going to do?

I propose moving gun season back a week in MN and allowing crossbows to be used as archery equipment for 7 days between the first Saturday in Nov (normal firearm opening day) and the next Friday. Then firearm season opens the next day, the second Saturday of November.
That's a win win for everybody.
 
Catscratch said:
A point could be made that the only reason archery season is longer than rifle season is due to the difficulty to harvest an animal with one. If archery equipment becomes too efficient at killing deer then is a longer season really needed or deserved? Same with muzzleloader? Is an inline, smokeless, with a scope muzzleloader different enough from a centerfire in effectiveness to warrant a separate season? Or should there be rules that regulate that technology to insure a gap?
Click to expand...

The argument made is always the increased harvest is small enough to considerably impact the population. MN controls population solely with how many doe tags are issued. It's hard to kill enough bucks to wipe out a population especially in areas where they are so sparse already that more are getting killed by wolves than gun hunts during the peak of the rut.
 
Brian662 said:
That was the point I was trying to make in post #13 of this thread. If the MN DNR doesn't allow hunters the tags to control animal populations with the seasons/framework in place now, what good is adding a more effective weapon - crossbows going to do?

I propose moving gun season back a week in MN and allowing crossbows to be used as archery equipment for 7 days between the first Saturday in Nov (normal firearm opening day) and the next Friday. Then firearm season opens the next day, the second Saturday of November.
That's a win win for everybody.
Click to expand...
It'd be more pallatable if we just adopted WI season dates and archery regs.
 
I do think the new generation today won't be adding many hunters to the pool compared to the past. Too many distractions like cell phones and internet make hunting less desirable to most unlike our generation. I do think we will hit a tipping point where there aren't enough of us to have a loud enough voice to be heard, we already lost our voice regarding doing what is best for the deer herd vs. what the insurance companies want. Most hunters I know here in NY blame the ins companies, I don't even know if that is what really drives legislation. I honestly don't know what drives legislation but it clearly isn't what is best for the herd.

The down side to becoming a "trophy state" would be less land access, unless you already own land there you are looking at crowded State lands or paying out the nose for a lease.
 
Like everything else---follow the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
my email to the committee members where the house bill was introduced:

to rep.heather.edelson, rep.jeff.brand, rep.john.burkel, rep.dawn.gillman, rep.josh.heintzeman, rep.roger.skraba, rep.samantha.vang, rep.peter.fischer, rep.sydney.jordan, rep.isaac.schultz, rep.rick.hansen, rep.kristi.pursell, rep.leigh.finke, rep.steven.jacob, rep.fue.lee, rep.dave.lislegard
Environmental and Natural Resources Finance and Policy Committee Members,

I’m writing in regards to HF2716 pertaining to making crossbows a legal weapon for all during archery hunting seasons. Currently anyone 60+ or with an injury or physical disability is allowed to use crossbows during this season. Archery seasons were created as a primitive weapon season with reduced efficacy compared to firearm season. Modern crossbows are not remotely primitive and are extremely effective weapons. We already have archery, firearm, and modern muzzleloader seasons. There is ample if not excessive opportunity for anyone who wants to hunt deer already.
Minnesota currently has a less balanced deer herd and lower quality deer hunting experience than every neighboring state. White-tailed deer have a natural life span often well exceeding 10 years old. On my land in Kanabec county I estimate that less than 10% of the bucks live to see 3 years old because the majority of them are killed as juveniles the first year they grow antlers at 1.5 years old. Most of them that survive to see a second set of antlers are killed at 2.5 years old. This is largely due to the hunting season structure in MN. Congress and the DNR share the blame for this. Congress limits the DNRs ability to manage for buck:doe ratio or age class balance and the resulting hunting regulations continue to make it harder and harder for bucks to live to maturity.
The deer population is controlled by the doe population. In areas where a population decrease is desired, we need to find ways to incentivize harvest of the does rather than further hammer the bucks.
Improving technology in regards to equipment, weapons, digital mapping, information, access, cameras, etc paired with the ever increasing season opportunity is too much. It is detrimental to our wildlife and the quality of our outdoor experiences. I oppose HF 2716.
 
They are really fighting crossbows in Iowa too .. it would be much more impactful to the buck quality in Iowa than Minnesota.

Like Minnesota, Iowa has too many seasons and long seasons. The one HUGE plus they have is no gun seasons in November.

The way the bucks rut in November in Iowa, it would be a big step back if the range went to 80 + yards. Plus much easier to shoot a Xbow out of a blind !

It’s a big battle . Ravin crossbows is a lobbying power. It’s all about money .
 
bwoods11 said:
It’s a big battle . Ravin crossbows is a lobbying power. It’s all about money .
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Iff'n i ever get a crossbow, it wont be a ravin because of that.
 
bwoods11 said:
They are really fighting crossbows in Iowa too .. it would be much more impactful to the buck quality in Iowa than Minnesota.

Like Minnesota, Iowa has too many seasons and long seasons. The one HUGE plus they have is no gun seasons in November.

The way the bucks rut in November in Iowa, it would be a big step back if the range went to 80 + yards. Plus much easier to shoot a Xbow out of a blind !

It’s a big battle . Ravin crossbows is a lobbying power. It’s all about money .
Click to expand...
At least they have something left to fight for.. Seems like everyone in MN is so beaten that people don't pay attention. MDHA is now on the supporting side of this. MDHA sure doesn't seem like an advocacy group that makes any damn sense.
 
I been shooting a crossbow for over a decade.

unless I am really missing something I can’t get more than 60 yards out of them.

and at a skittish whitetail 50 is about all she wrote.

45 is more like it ……max….

on calmer mule deer/ elk you could try yo stretch it out.

the ballistic coieficient of the bolts versus arrows out of a compound is huge.

if I had to plan on 80 yard shots …….I most definitely would use a compound bow.

the crossbow shines at point blank work. IMO
 
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Angus 1895 said:
I been shooting a crossbow for over a decade.

unless I am really missing something I can’t get more than 60 yards out of them.

and at a skittish whitetail 50 is about all she wrote.

the ballistic coieficient of the bolts versus arrows out of a compound is huge.

if I had to plan on 80 yard shots …….I most definitely would use a compound bow.
Click to expand...
Are you using the crossbow because it's more challenging than the compound?
 
Angus 1895 said:
I been shooting a crossbow for over a decade.

unless I am really missing something I can’t get more than 60 yards out of them.

and at a skittish whitetail 50 is about all she wrote.

the ballistic coieficient of the bolts versus arrows out of a compound is huge.

if I had to plan on 80 yard shots …….I most definitely would use a compound bow.
Click to expand...

Interesting. You believe that the ballistic coefficient of the bolts is enough to overcome the huge velocity/energy/momentum advantage? Never considered that. Honestly I don't know what the capabilities are, just seen people showing 100 yard videos in crossbow marketing videos.

To be fair, truly accomplished archers can shoot a compounds into impressively small groups at 100 yards and i'd guarantee i could shoot a compound better freehand than a crossbow. The edge for crossbows is #1 - not having to draw, and #2 with a rest, it's basically the same skillset as shooting a rifle - takes no skill building.
 
Troubles Trees said:
I do think the new generation today won't be adding many hunters to the pool compared to the past. Too many distractions like cell phones and internet make hunting less desirable to most unlike our generation. I do think we will hit a tipping point where there aren't enough of us to have a loud enough voice to be heard, we already lost our voice regarding doing what is best for the deer herd vs. what the insurance companies want. Most hunters I know here in NY blame the ins companies, I don't even know if that is what really drives legislation. I honestly don't know what drives legislation but it clearly isn't what is best for the herd.

The down side to becoming a "trophy state" would be less land access, unless you already own land there you are looking at crowded State lands or paying out the nose for a lease.
Click to expand...
It's interesting. The pressure is still intense by me, but the duration is as short as it's ever been.

In my neck of the woods, every inch of public land seems to get pounded for the first weekend of rifle season, and then it's crickets until next year. Those same public acres get all sorts of harassed leading up to rifle opener. There's about 3 weekends of non-stop prep work going on leading up to opener. Make firewood, mow the grass, mow the trails, check stands, set up blinds, clear shooting lanes, sight in the rifles, bring the kids so they can rip around on wheelers and the dog can run the woods for grouse. The impact that has on the forest critters for just a couple days of hunting is immense. There is no normal hunting pattern there like they pretend exists on tv. Second and third weekend are a bust because of it. Those deer get so damn spooky, they won't come out until 2 hours after dark.

I can tell the exact day this starts because the number of deer that shack up on or near my place triples and my plots get taken down quickly. I don't see very many of them during the day, but the nighttime groups go from 1-2, to 5-8 in one photo in the yard plots. It seems the carpetbaggers show up nocturnal, and the residents stay on a day pattern.

There were about 2200 acres logged this winter within just a few miles of me. That's gonna be upwards of 50-100 hunters having to find a new spot next season, and there ain't another 2200 acres of unmolested land to occupy. Not looking forward to that, but those giant blocks of clear cut ought to really help the deer numbers for the next few years.
 
I can shoot x's at 75 yards with my compound bow, but I would never think of shooting a deer at that yardage. I have seen several videos of cross bows shooting bullseyes at 75+, but that doesnt mean it will do much damage at that yardage.
 
SD51555 said:
The challenge some of my friends have is that deer are jumping the string beyond 40 yards, even with crossbow speeds.
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Always kind of wondered about if that aspect is actually worse with crossbows at longer distances. I got houdini'd bad by an unalerted buck this year at 40 yards and my bow is nice and quiet. Crossbows aint quiet.
 
SD51555 said:
It's interesting. The pressure is still intense by me, but the duration is as short as it's ever been.

In my neck of the woods, every inch of public land seems to get pounded for the first weekend of rifle season, and then it's crickets until next year. Those same public acres get all sorts of harassed leading up to rifle opener. There's about 3 weekends of non-stop prep work going on leading up to opener. Make firewood, mow the grass, mow the trails, check stands, set up blinds, clear shooting lanes, sight in the rifles, bring the kids so they can rip around on wheelers and the dog can run the woods for grouse. The impact that has on the forest critters for just a couple days of hunting is immense. There is no normal hunting pattern there like they pretend exists on tv. Second and third weekend are a bust because of it. Those deer get so damn spooky, they won't come out until 2 hours after dark.

I can tell the exact day this starts because the number of deer that shack up on or near my place triples and my plots get taken down quickly. I don't see very many of them during the day, but the nighttime groups go from 1-2, to 5-8 in one photo in the yard plots. It seems the carpetbaggers show up nocturnal, and the residents stay on a day pattern.

There were about 2200 acres logged this winter within just a few miles of me. That's gonna be upwards of 50-100 hunters having to find a new spot next season, and there ain't another 2200 acres of unmolested land to occupy. Not looking forward to that, but those giant blocks of clear cut ought to really help the deer numbers for the next few years.
Click to expand...

Now days the internet makes new timber cuts easy to find. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of those hunters and even some new hunters hunted the area because of the cut if there's any adjacent cover available.
 
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