MN bills introduced to allow crossbows during archery season.

Yeah, my taxes for a modest ranch style house (bought as a fix-R-upper for $24,500 and now assessed for $130k) and 30 acres is $3,924 this year for school and county property taxes, NY loves taxes.

I am curious if those commenting about crossguns would prefer your state go the other way and moving compound bows to gun season so folks could only hunt with recurves during regular bow season? Seems like a favorable position to open up land access and increase age structure for bucks. The problem then might be that a majority of compound hunters would likely skip bow season and flock to rifle season with a gun instead of a compound and land would be tied up again, so you would probably have to also support banning rifles and make it only shotgun for gun season (or maybe only muzzleloaders IDK)? So ideally you would have recurve season, shotgun season and then muzzleloader.

I typed and reworded this 4 times because it comes off as sarcastic, but it isn't intended that way! I am genuinely trying to see things from your perspective. I am just old enough to remember the compound debate when it was just recurve allowed for bow season and it feels like the same debate all over again. My county has been shotgun only until 2 or 3 seasons ago when they allowed rifles so it isn't a ridiculous concept. I tried to look up the year compounds were allowed here in NY but I can't find it, anyone know by chance? I know the compound bow was invented in 1966 and states started incorporating it in bow season but can't find when NY implemented it in the regular Bow season.


No sarcasm read into it. To be honest I would love that! switch!!!
With everything I've said you guys need to take with a grain of salt. I'm going off my perspective which is admittedly very small. I live in KS and have an opinion on what I've witnessed and watched change as in my lifetime. I understand it might not jive with other parts of the country.
 
My county could be the exception but we have a good number of young kids that hunt in our county.

My sons classes all had very active outdoorsman . They are serious archery hunters, turkey, waterfowl, coyotes, carp shooting. These young men travel to many states to hunt (elk, antelope, muley, whitetail).

They tend to take it very serious and spend money on quality equipment and clothing. Much, much more than I ever did at that age .

I never took an out of state trip until I was 25 or 26 (pheasants in SD). Both of my kids have shot elk and antelope. I’ve never hunted either one.

I’m not seeing the lack of youth participation at all in my area of Minnesota. We have plenty of adult hunters and a lot of youth hunters.. no shortage !
That's outstanding!
 
If they do pass the crossbow during archery for everyone I'm hoping it helps reduce the number of wounded deer that end up wasted. Also might help to reduce the doe numbers before rifle season and give us a more active rut. Only one deer per season no matter the weapon so it's not like some people are going to take way more deer than they could before. Poachers need to be punished much more severely in my opinion.
 
No sarcasm read into it. To be honest I would love that! switch!!!
With everything I've said you guys need to take with a grain of salt. I'm going off my perspective which is admittedly very small. I live in KS and have an opinion on what I've witnessed and watched change as in my lifetime. I understand it might not jive with other parts of the country.
Thank you sir! I appreciate everyone's opinions and everything is so different from state to state, it is difficult to have these kind of discussions online as you can't tell if someone is just being an a-hole or just asking a question and I wasn't trying to be the a-hole so thank you. I do think laws aren't geared towards what is best for the deer herd, or hunters for that matter anymore, and more towards insurance companies, or special interests etc.

Personally I wasn't a fan of crossbows but I am open to ideas and opinions, that view changed when I had shoulder surgery and couldn't draw a bow, I also popped my C4, C5 and C6 discs and permanently lost fluid. Well that is less than honest, I dropped my bow to minimum weight and it still caused a lot of pain to draw my bow and found myself below my self imposed amount of shooting prior to season. I do think no matter the legislation a person should use the legal weapon that best puts the game down quickly and humanly, to me that should be the goal. For some that might be a compound for others that might be a crossbow.
 
As a PA resident, I was about the biggest opponent to crossbow inclusion you'd come across. Hated the idea of sharing archery season with a bunch of gun hunters. Funny enough, the sky didn't fall. I continued to harvest the same big bucks I always did. Finally made the switch to crossbows myself two years ago and I'm loving it. The time I spent practicing with my bow has been converted to time spent picking out which deer to take.

Can't say that I've noticed any significant changes to archery season in the heaviest hunted state in the country.
 
If they do pass the crossbow during archery for everyone I'm hoping it helps reduce the number of wounded deer that end up wasted. Also might help to reduce the doe numbers before rifle season and give us a more active rut. Only one deer per season no matter the weapon so it's not like some people are going to take way more deer than they could before. Poachers need to be punished much more severely in my opinion.
Nice! Is that in Minnesota? Is that one deer for bow, another during gun or just one deer per year?

NY now allows 5 per hunter if memory serves :/ a doe and a buck with a bow (antlerless and either sex tags), a buck tag for gun season and up to 2 doe tags that can get filled any season.

(In a Billy Mays voice) But wait there's more! There is also a late season draw on November 1st for "extra" doe tags for areas that didn't sell enough doe tags. There is also the DMFA area that allows 2 deer -->per day<-- from October 1st till the end of gun season which is close to Christmas lol The murder zone we call it, if one took their limit, they would harvest 180'ish deer every year.
 
Having grown up in suburbia with zero access to land and a family that didn’t hunt, I’ve always had to pay for land outside of public. Just was the way of the world. I accept it as fact and have literally made career and personal choices to facilitate my passion.
I think young adults can either bemoan it and play whoa is me or they can make choices that benefit themselves and their future. Either you have the passion for it or you don’t.
 
Thank you sir! I appreciate everyone's opinions and everything is so different from state to state, it is difficult to have these kind of discussions online as you can't tell if someone is just being an a-hole or just asking a question and I wasn't trying to be the a-hole so thank you. I do think laws aren't geared towards what is best for the deer herd, or hunters for that matter anymore, and more towards insurance companies, or special interests etc.

Personally I wasn't a fan of crossbows but I am open to ideas and opinions, that view changed when I had shoulder surgery and couldn't draw a bow, I also popped my C4, C5 and C6 discs and permanently lost fluid. Well that is less than honest, I dropped my bow to minimum weight and it still caused a lot of pain to draw my bow and found myself below my self imposed amount of shooting prior to season. I do think no matter the legislation a person should use the legal weapon that best puts the game down quickly and humanly, to me that should be the goal. For some that might be a compound for others that might be a crossbow.

And thank you for the open minded comments. I don't intend to come across as a A-hole but I can see where people disagree with me.

I strongly fought crossbow inclusion in KS. Even fought it for old age and medical (figured it was a stepping stone towards full inclusion). After they were included as archery equipment I bought one and shot a few deer with it. Thought if I was going to have a honest argument against them I should have experience with them. I no longer have an argument against them, but wouldn't mind if they were excluded as archery. With that said, I wouldn't mind if mechanical releases were completely excluded from archery season.
 
Nice! Is that in Minnesota? Is that one deer for bow, another during gun or just one deer per year?

NY now allows 5 per hunter if memory serves :/ a doe and a buck with a bow (antlerless and either sex tags), a buck tag for gun season and up to 2 doe tags that can get filled any season.

(In a Billy Mays voice) But wait there's more! There is also a late season draw on November 1st for "extra" doe tags for areas that didn't sell enough doe tags. There is also the DMFA area that allows 2 deer -->per day<-- from October 1st till the end of gun season which is close to Christmas lol The murder zone we call it, if one took their limit, they would harvest 180'ish deer every year.

In MN (except in very rare circumstances) you can only use one of your tags on an antlered deer per year. There are opportunities for bonus does of varying #'s based on location. However, you can hunt during archery, firearm, and muzzleloader season every year.

The big catch is that MN is a party hunting state. Meaning you can have unlimited #'s of people in your "hunting party" and anyone in that party can shoot everything they see until all the tags in the party are filled. Between the peak rut firearm season and party hunting, there are very few bucks that make it past their 1st or 2nd set of antlers in much of the state.
 
Yeah, my taxes for a modest ranch style house (bought as a fix-R-upper for $24,500 and now assessed for $130k) and 30 acres is $3,924 this year for school and county property taxes, NY loves taxes.

I am curious if those commenting about crossguns would prefer your state go the other way and moving compound bows to gun season so folks could only hunt with recurves during regular bow season? Seems like a favorable position to open up land access and increase age structure for bucks. The problem then might be that a majority of compound hunters would likely skip bow season and flock to rifle season with a gun instead of a compound and land would be tied up again, so you would probably have to also support banning rifles and make it only shotgun for gun season (or maybe only muzzleloaders IDK)? So ideally you would have recurve season, shotgun season and then muzzleloader.

I typed and reworded this 4 times because it comes off as sarcastic, but it isn't intended that way! I am genuinely trying to see things from your perspective. I am just old enough to remember the compound debate when it was just recurve allowed for bow season and it feels like the same debate all over again. My county has been shotgun only until 2 or 3 seasons ago when they allowed rifles so it isn't a ridiculous concept. I tried to look up the year compounds were allowed here in NY but I can't find it, anyone know by chance? I know the compound bow was invented in 1966 and states started incorporating it in bow season but can't find when NY implemented it in the regular Bow season.

My take is that opening up new opportunities is much harder than taking them away. Comparing taking away an opportunity for which tens of thousands of people have invested money and time into (compounds for all) to granting a new one that has never been available (crossbows for everyone) are not equivalent. That said, if I had to choose between opening up crossbow to everyone or taking compounds out of archery season strictly for my own selfish reasons, I'd struggle with the choice. Considering everyone else, it's easy to say i'd rather not screw the 10s of thousands of people who have invested in shooting compound bows.
 
Nice! Is that in Minnesota? Is that one deer for bow, another during gun or just one deer per year?

NY now allows 5 per hunter if memory serves :/ a doe and a buck with a bow (antlerless and either sex tags), a buck tag for gun season and up to 2 doe tags that can get filled any season.

(In a Billy Mays voice) But wait there's more! There is also a late season draw on November 1st for "extra" doe tags for areas that didn't sell enough doe tags. There is also the DMFA area that allows 2 deer -->per day<-- from October 1st till the end of gun season which is close to Christmas lol The murder zone we call it, if one took their limit, they would harvest 180'ish deer every year.
Just 1 deer per year. If you get one with a bow you are done. Granted some years they allow more tags per hunter(been as many as 5 per hunter a few years back).
 
My take is that opening up new opportunities is much harder than taking them away. Comparing taking away an opportunity for which tens of thousands of people have invested money and time into (compounds for all) to granting a new one that has never been available (crossbows for everyone) are not equivalent. That said, if I had to choose between opening up crossbow to everyone or taking compounds out of archery season strictly for my own selfish reasons, I'd struggle with the choice. Considering everyone else, it's easy to say i'd rather not screw the 10s of thousands of people who have invested in shooting compound bows.
That is fair to say bud, I intended it to mean never allowing compounds into bow season for the same reasons people have stated with crossbows. Longer range, more accurate, less practice needed, easier to shoot with letoffs and trigger releases etc.
 
In MN (except in very rare circumstances) you can only use one of your tags on an antlered deer per year. There are opportunities for bonus does of varying #'s based on location. However, you can hunt during archery, firearm, and muzzleloader season every year.

The big catch is that MN is a party hunting state. Meaning you can have unlimited #'s of people in your "hunting party" and anyone in that party can shoot everything they see until all the tags in the party are filled. Between the peak rut firearm season and party hunting, there are very few bucks that make it past their 1st or 2nd set of antlers in much of the state.
I remember in the 90's NY was a party permit state and they had it set up like that. Depending on the needs of the deer herd I think a 1 buck rule per person is fair. I get 2 per year and rarely fill the 2nd one but that is mostly because I pass on the younger bucks. I could easily shoot my limit here.
 
after 40 yrs of bowhunting, with recurves, old crappy compounds, new tech compounds, and now crossbows....the difference noticed over time is:
way better chance at a lethal shot with the current technology. The underlying issue with this is: the types of shots and/or distances have greatly increased, which then negates the lethal shot advantage. Most everyone here who's ever bowhunted a day in their life can attest to taking a shot that may have been a bit too long. You learn from it, figure out your limits, and don't do it again. So yes, I would expect the harvest to go up w/ crossbows, and the injury rate to stay flat, considering most younger bowhunters have never held a stick bow, let alone hunted with one.
I personally think everyone should hunt with a stick bow first when getting into bowhunting. The massive amt of experience gained will make the transition to compounds/crossbows understandable/relatable for the average person. When posters here say "gunbows", I understand, because compounds/crossbows feel like a gun after using a stick with no sights/triggers. Note that our wildlife department considers the air guns that shoot bolts to be legal to use, but only during gun season.
My home state Oklahoma seems to have a decent handle on harvest opportunities, and they're fairly liberal. We're not as exposed to winterkill issues like you all in the northern states, but, the wildlife dept can and will change bag limits/zone limits depending on their surveys. Whatever they say, gov't agency or not, I'm usually fine with.
Lastly, remember when you took your son to a front door of a landowner, and asked for permission to hunt/fish? It was usually a slam-dunk, but those days are long gone. The prices of some of these leases are astounding, usually when the landowner hires a third party to market their place, and then they get their cut. If I was a landowner, I wouldn't lease my property out, let alone let someone hunt for free. But, if a dad showed up with his kid...
 
That is fair to say bud, I intended it to mean never allowing compounds into bow season for the same reasons people have stated with crossbows. Longer range, more accurate, less practice needed, easier to shoot with letoffs and trigger releases etc.

Yeah, the thing is compounds when they started were a far cry from compounds today. Wasn't such a dramatic difference when people started using them and technology has creeped incrementally a ton since. Kind of like crossbows today are a far cry from where they were 20 years ago.
 
In Arkansas, anyone can use a crossbow the entire five month archery season. Vertical bow hunters still harvest more deer than crossbow hunters. A lot of the crossbow hunters were compound hunters and made the switch - like both me and my son. And to be honest - we both kill far fewer deer with a crossbow than we did our compounds. We would lower our standards with a compound. We typically hunt for a real quality deer with our crossbow - the same deer we would hunt for with our rifles.
 
Recruitment - lousy excuse when we already have special youth seasons. Recruitment is limited by access, not endlessly making it easier to kill something.

Kids/Injured/handicapped/seniors - All but kids can already hunt in the archery season with crossbows yet lots of people tend to lean on this groups as justification to get their own desires. I'll concede that getting a dr appt to have one's handicap or injury certified can be a significant inconvenience and that is a reasonable argument in support of opening up xbows.

I'll say that some of the reports from states that are already crossbows for all have reduced my heartburn. The impacts are clearly not universal or noticeable for all. I'm sure @PatinPA's experience is not completely uncommon where increased pressure from rifle hunters who bought xbows can impact the quality of hunting in select areas. I personally avoided archery hunting for many years because I didn't have time for another hobby and knew id want to practice a lot to be proficient. If crossbows were allowed long ago i wouldn't have thought twice about buying one knowing there is little practice required for someone who already shoots rifles.

The crux of my feelings on this issue comes down to this - When an animal has a natural life span of 8 or so years but seemingly less than 10% of bucks get to grow a 3rd pair of antlers it's hard for me to jump on board with making it easier to kill more of them. MN DNR will tell you they manage only to population #s without concern for age class or buck/doe ratios. They don't even have good data in many cases on buck/doe ratios or age classes. This is just one more thing that could further contribute to lower quality hunting and I vehemently reject the idea that we need to continue to make hunting easier than it already is. Technology has done that enough

I've been active in wildlife/season setting issues for big game out west where there are better resources like Randy Newberg and his forums to keep people up to speed and point out ways to get involved. I'm new at it in my home state and still trying to figure how best to spread the work and make my opinion known. Even if it's futile, hopefully I'll feel like i've earned the right to complain having at least contacted decision makers.
 
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Maybe using a crossbow will help someone harvest a deer who is a shitty hunter with a traditional or a compound bow? As long as hunters are being ethical and only hunting land they have permission to hunt, I don't care what their weapon of choice is. JMHO
 
That's what gun season is for, IMO
 
Gun season at least in our area is far more of an impact on the quality of bucks taken then crossbows and compound bows. This past gun season in Wisconsin saw 9 bucks 3.5 years or older shot during the 9 day gun hunt. That's compared to 1 buck shot during archery season. This is in our area of South central Wisconsin
 
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