Masks vs viruses

have a little background using an n95 mask in my line of work, and I've always thought of it as a glorified "face diaper" that is a little "harder to breathe out of", especially in the heat. Maybe a little better than a dollar general mask, but not by much. Can't seal off any mask with my facial hair, so that's why it didn't seem to fit the corona application for me.
The only time I'd wear a mask is if it was required to enter somewhere I needed to go. It simply wasn't worth making a stand against the establishment when it took 2 seconds to slip one on. Usually i had my face covering i used for fishing as my mask.
 
Masks sucked and don't work. Vaccines are not for viruses. Nearly lost my job because of all this BS. Thankfully enough of us at one place held strong together that eliminating all of us was not a viable option.

....think I need to order one of those t-shirts
 
I guess for you, being a sheep and believing the Biden admin is the good shepherd provides the bliss of ignorance ...
actually it was the trump admin that put in all the rules. But Im sure you all praise that draft dodging traitor too.
Ever occur to you that you caught the worst flu of your life because you apparently spent 2 years in mommies basement? Your immune system was depleted from shielding yourself from every germ possible. I'm sure you wiped your shopping cart down with the poison wipes everytime also? Stayed at least 6 feet (lol) from everyone else? Yeah figured
I was working the entire time so try again loser.
But the science says May 10th, Covid is still an emergency, but May 11th, you dont need to worry about it anymore!

I think the guy that is smarter then us idiots, may have caught the flu of his life, because his immune system has been pampered for 2 years. Seems that was pretty common in a quite a few blue states that were strict with masks, and lock downs.

Myself, never really wore a mask at all, except when I had too, like when you go to the dr, and they tell you, you have to wear one.
I have been chased out of Fleet Farm because I didnt wear a mask, along with a few other places. I had a couple surgeries done during the covid scare, and over half the time, no one would say anything to me for not wearing a mask.

I havent been sick since covid scare started, or at least nothing more then a little sore throat, and a small cough. What I would consider a slight cold.
you are right, my immune system was pampered but that just goes to show that the masks did in fact work for multiple types of viruses, along with washing hands more frequently and staying away from people. also you may want to actually go learn how to wear a N95 properly, because you have to take the time to get a proper seal, the right size of mask, and only use it for the correct duration of time.
 
Masks sucked and don't work. Vaccines are not for viruses. Nearly lost my job because of all this BS. Thankfully enough of us at one place held strong together that eliminating all of us was not a viable option.

....think I need to order one of those t-shirts
vaccines are 100% for viruses dumbass. Polio was eradicated because of a vaccine, measels, mumps, flu, yellow fever, spanish flu, maleria, the list goes on and on. you may want to crack open a non fiction book every once and a while, maybe visit a doctors office and ask some questions
 
vaccines are 100% for viruses dumbass. Polio was eradicated because of a vaccine, measels, mumps, flu, yellow fever, spanish flu, maleria, the list goes on and on. you may want to crack open a non fiction book every once and a while, maybe visit a doctors office and ask some questions
Not once has my doctor nor my kids doctor ever mentioned the COVID vaccine to us. And we live in a "dangerous urban epicenter". That alone tells me enough. If asked they likely won't speak bad about it but to never speak it tells me all I need to know.

Not sure what's got you so angry, maybe that apple juice cocktail they shot you up with
 
Why do any of you idiots care anymore? seems like this post itself is just trying to stir the pot. Biden is currently repealing all covid emergency protocols and masks havent been required since early 2021 in most places. Now i could go into how the masks weren't meant to stop the virus itself, just the much larger fluid particles it was commonly attached to as it wasnt a true airborne virus, or how I didnt have a single case of the cold or a flu for 2 years while everyone was masking, and then caught the worst flu of my life when the restrictions were lifted, but that goes against your confirmation bias you want here
Calling people idiots doesn’t start the conversation off very well. The “well that was last year, why should anyone care” excuse doesn’t fly well. I suspect you were one that not only supported it, but also one that likely reminded people to put their mask on in public?

You also seem to think that no flu and no colds (both viruses) for 2 years is a direct result of the mask mandates… while apparently knowing that the masks didn’t stop Covid (also a virus). The truth is they counted flu and pneumonia cases as Covid. I’m not sure how you aren’t connecting the dots there, but there are many clinical RCT studies I cited there so you can see for yourself that masks don’t stop viruses. The studies cover all viruses including Zika, H1N1 and —>non-epidemic flu seasons.

If you have questions I can answer them with screenshots from that study so you don’t have to take 15 minutes out of your life to find the truth as opposed to guessing.

I guess this is news to you but I would hope you would care that they shut down and killed small businesses, kicked out and arrested people for attending church, forced kids to stay home and basically skip a year of school, parents had to find and pay for daycare/ babysitting etc etc all while maximizing and exploiting Covid deaths to create fear and panic. Then came the forced vaccinations on anyone they could, and those that had a choice, but didn’t get the jabs they openly publicly shamed. They knew from Pfizer’s trials it didn’t stop transmission or prevent infection, we knew this early in the vaccination campaign for certain, yet they claimed 95% effective at preventing infection which was nothing more than a lie to sell more snake oil. Not sure how you gloss over all that and think it’s no big deal.

You do know the Covid death number they still post today is 90-95% exaggerated right? It says it right on the same page.

Is that how you think government should work?

057A3605-2F47-4352-AC12-625441AA6ED3.png
 
I am long past making COVID political, or arguing about the politics of it. Both parties made mistakes, the problem is one of the parties can’t let go of it, and move on, even after the “science” has proven almost everything about it wrong that we have been told.

As for learning how to wear a mask, I avoided it, and I didn’t get sick, so I must have worn/not worn it correctly. I lived life like normal, and even took advantage of cheap flights, cheap hotels and vacationed a lot more than usual. I have been out of the country several times, never got sick. So not wearing a mask worked well for me. Never got the flu or bad cold after it either.
 
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Calling people idiots doesn’t start the conversation off very well. The “well that was last year, why should anyone care” excuse doesn’t fly well. I suspect you were one that not only supported it, but also one that likely reminded people to put their mask on in public?

You also seem to think that no flu and no colds (both viruses) for 2 years is a direct result of the mask mandates… while apparently knowing that the masks didn’t stop Covid (also a virus). The truth is they counted flu and pneumonia cases as Covid. I’m not sure how you aren’t connecting the dots there, but there are many clinical RCT studies I cited there so you can see for yourself that masks don’t stop viruses. The studies cover all viruses including Zika, H1N1 and —>non-epidemic flu seasons.

If you have questions I can answer them with screenshots from that study so you don’t have to take 15 minutes out of your life to find the truth as opposed to guessing.

I guess this is news to you but I would hope you would care that they shut down and killed small businesses, kicked out and arrested people for attending church, forced kids to stay home and basically skip a year of school, parents had to find and pay for daycare/ babysitting etc etc all while maximizing and exploiting Covid deaths to create fear and panic. Then came the forced vaccinations on anyone they could, and those that had a choice, but didn’t get the jabs they openly publicly shamed. They knew from Pfizer’s trials it didn’t stop transmission or prevent infection, we knew this early in the vaccination campaign for certain, yet they claimed 95% effective at preventing infection which was nothing more than a lie to sell more snake oil. Not sure how you gloss over all that and think it’s no big deal.

You do know the Covid death number they still post today is 90-95% exaggerated right? It says it right on the same page.

Is that how you think government should work?

View attachment 49361
He can no longer reply to you...

Starting with idiot was a flag but calling Bueller a dumbass took the cake. Bueller does have "Moderator" under his name after all.
 
Before I move on regarding the Covid/masks threads, I'll explain why I made two prior posts on the Covid thread and why I'll close out my involvement with one additional contribution. As someone else said, my beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion; I know what works for me ... and God forbid you follow me ... we'd probably both have regrets. Regardless of the subject (e.g., growing trees) I try to point folks toward the best (yes, I know it's my opinion) information available and maybe point out what might be relevant parts of that information (including source credibility).
The Cochrane Database piece has been noted by 3 posters; TT initially presented it - I believe in good faith - as information relevant to the efficacy of masks. My red flag with his post was the n95 section on the right side of the page - especially the absence of the word Covid and the bias factor inherent in many RCT studies.
Assuming folks are really interested in the efficacy of masks, I share info for your bedtime reading and enjoyment.
1st .. a piece by an world respected organization ... PNAS ... The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), a peer reviewed journal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), is an
authoritative source of high-impact, original research that broadly spans the biological, physical, and social sciences. The journal is global in scope and submission is open to all researchers worldwide. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014564118 ...

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 Jeremy Howard https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3102-9282 jphoward@usfca.edu, Austin Huang, Zhiyuan Li

2nd .. from The National Library of Medicine -

Randomized controlled trials in patients with COVID-19: a systematic review and critical appraisal

Kavina Kudhail,a Jacqueline Thompson,b Vivek Mathews,c Breanna Morrison,b and Karla Hemmingb .... they say


"Of the 40 included trials, 19 (47%) were at high risk of bias, and this was particularly frequent in trials from low-middle income countries (11/14, 79%). Potential deviations to intended interventions (i.e., control participants accessing experimental treatments) were considered a potential source of bias in some studies (14, 35%), as was the risk due to selective reporting of results (6, 15%). The randomization process was considered at low risk of bias in most studies (34, 95%), as were missing data (36, 90%) and measurement of the outcome (35, 87%).

Many randomized trials evaluating COVID-19 interventions are at risk of bias, particularly those conducted in low-middle income countries. Biases are mostly due to deviations from intended interventions and partly due to the selection of reported results. The use of placebo control and publicly available protocol can mitigate many of these risks."

3rd - material taken from the Cochrane piece (all in quotes)
"The risk of bias for the RCTs and cluster‐RCTs was mostly high or unclear.-" are they really saying ... we don't know?

"What are the limitations of the evidence?"
"Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness, but moderate for the more precisely defined laboratory‐confirmed respiratory virus infection, related to masks and N95/P2 respirators. The results might change when further evidence becomes available. Relatively low numbers of people followed the guidance about wearing masks or about hand hygiene, which may have affected the results of the studies."

" The evidence summarised in this review on the use of masks is largely based on studies conducted during traditional peak respiratory virus infection seasons up until 2016. Two relevant randomised trials conducted during the COVID‐19 pandemic have been published, but their addition had minimal impact on the overall pooled estimate of effect. The observed lack of effect of mask wearing in interrupting the spread of influenza‐like illness (ILI) or influenza/COVID‐19 in our review has many potential reasons, including: poor study design; insufficiently powered studies arising from low viral circulation in some studies; lower adherence with mask wearing, especially amongst children; quality of the masks used; self‐contamination of the mask by hands; lack of protection from eye exposure from respiratory droplets (allowing a route of entry of respiratory viruses into the nose via the lacrimal duct); saturation of masks with saliva from extended use (promoting virus survival in proteinaceous material); and possible risk compensation behaviour leading to an exaggerated sense of security (Ammann 2022; Brosseau 2020; Byambasuren 2021; Canini 2010; Cassell 2006; Coroiu 2021

4th JAMA ... Journal of American Medical association https://jamanetwork.com › journals › jama › fullarticle
Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread

5th A couple of highly regarded medical organizations
https://www.mayoclinic.org › in-depth › art-20485449 How well do face masks protect against COVID-19?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org › health › coronavirus Coronavirus Face Masks FAQs - Johns Hopkins Medicine

Sorry for the long post ... Adios, my friend!
 
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I will use my own testing for how well N95 masks work, I have spray painted a few things in my days, I use the better N95 masks, not cheep ones, after a half hour of painting, my nostrils are filled with paint particles.

But, I wore a mask to paint because I know it will keep the majority out, because if you paint without one, you would be a lot worse off. I am sure there is some comparison for that with COVID as well, but I wasn’t going to wear a mask all day everyday. That isn’t living.
 
.

He can no longer reply to you...

Starting with idiot was a flag but calling Bueller a dumbass took the cake. Bueller does have "Moderator" under his name after all.
Thank you sir!
 
Before I move on regarding this thread, I'll explain why I made two prior posts and why I'll close out my involvement with one additional contribution. As someone else said, my beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion; I know what works for me ... and God forbid you follow me ... don't want that responsibility regarding health care. Regardless of the subject (e.g., growing trees) I try to point folks toward the best (yes, I know it's my opinion) information available and maybe point out what might be relevant parts of that information (including source credibility).
The Cochrane Database piece has been noted by 3 posters; TT initially presented it - I believe in good faith - as information relevant to the efficacy of masks. My red flag with his post was the n95 section on the right side of the page - especially the absence of the word Covid and the bias factor inherent in many RCT studies.
Assuming folks are really interested in the efficacy of masks, I share info for your bedtime reading and enjoyment.
1st .. a piece by an world respected organization ... PNAS ... The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), a peer reviewed journal of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), is an
authoritative source of high-impact, original research that broadly spans the biological, physical, and social sciences. The journal is global in scope and submission is open to all researchers worldwide. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014564118 ...

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 Jeremy Howard https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3102-9282 jphoward@usfca.edu, Austin Huang, Zhiyuan Li

2nd .. from The National Library of Medicine -

Randomized controlled trials in patients with COVID-19: a systematic review and critical appraisal

Kavina Kudhail,a Jacqueline Thompson,b Vivek Mathews,c Breanna Morrison,b and Karla Hemmingb .... they say


"Of the 40 included trials, 19 (47%) were at high risk of bias, and this was particularly frequent in trials from low-middle income countries (11/14, 79%). Potential deviations to intended interventions (i.e., control participants accessing experimental treatments) were considered a potential source of bias in some studies (14, 35%), as was the risk due to selective reporting of results (6, 15%). The randomization process was considered at low risk of bias in most studies (34, 95%), as were missing data (36, 90%) and measurement of the outcome (35, 87%).

Many randomized trials evaluating COVID-19 interventions are at risk of bias, particularly those conducted in low-middle income countries. Biases are mostly due to deviations from intended interventions and partly due to the selection of reported results. The use of placebo control and publicly available protocol can mitigate many of these risks."

3rd - material taken from the Cochrane piece (all in quotes)
"The risk of bias for the RCTs and cluster‐RCTs was mostly high or unclear.-" are they really saying ... we don't know?

"What are the limitations of the evidence?"
"Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness, but moderate for the more precisely defined laboratory‐confirmed respiratory virus infection, related to masks and N95/P2 respirators. The results might change when further evidence becomes available. Relatively low numbers of people followed the guidance about wearing masks or about hand hygiene, which may have affected the results of the studies."

" The evidence summarised in this review on the use of masks is largely based on studies conducted during traditional peak respiratory virus infection seasons up until 2016. Two relevant randomised trials conducted during the COVID‐19 pandemic have been published, but their addition had minimal impact on the overall pooled estimate of effect. The observed lack of effect of mask wearing in interrupting the spread of influenza‐like illness (ILI) or influenza/COVID‐19 in our review has many potential reasons, including: poor study design; insufficiently powered studies arising from low viral circulation in some studies; lower adherence with mask wearing, especially amongst children; quality of the masks used; self‐contamination of the mask by hands; lack of protection from eye exposure from respiratory droplets (allowing a route of entry of respiratory viruses into the nose via the lacrimal duct); saturation of masks with saliva from extended use (promoting virus survival in proteinaceous material); and possible risk compensation behaviour leading to an exaggerated sense of security (Ammann 2022; Brosseau 2020; Byambasuren 2021; Canini 2010; Cassell 2006; Coroiu 2021

4th JAMA ... Journal of American Medical association https://jamanetwork.com › journals › jama › fullarticle
Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread

5th A couple of highly regarded medical organizations
https://www.mayoclinic.org › in-depth › art-20485449 How well do face masks protect against COVID-19?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org › health › coronavirus Coronavirus Face Masks FAQs - Johns Hopkins Medicine

Sorry for the long post ... Adios, my friend!
Bias is always present and discussed in studies, but I get your point. There is a multitude of studies out there, but I would suggest going beyond the Covid bias era and looking at studies prior to Covid and were simply masks vs virus theme. Airborne virus's particulates are similar in size, doesn't matter if it is H1N1, the flu or Covid, and using a mask against any virus is comparable to throwing a handful of gravel through a chain link fence. I implore you to look for a study pre-2020 that says masks work verses any virus for less Covid-bias information.

As far as studies go, how much bias did the Pfizer mRNA vaccines report? We can't see the actual trial so there isn't any scrutiny allowed, but in the end we were simply forced to accept it at face value and it got implemented globally.

What we do know from the Pfizer trials is that 12 year old Maddie de Garay was paralyzed in the initial Pfizer trials that involved 10,000 people, but Pfizer listed her as getting kicked out for "abdominal pain". Since we are discussing bias, how much bias is expected from a company selling the product that they themselves are doing the only trial on? We do it all the time, the FDA doesn't subcontract the studies for any new medicines or treatment to another entity hospitals or universities as it should be. My point is they put high bias on studies in low income countries, just because they are low income countries, but America isn't a low income country yet we didn't even question the bias in the Pfizer trials even after Senate hearings confronted them.
 
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Imo, every study is biased. Which way all depends on who's paying for the study.
 
I finally got a few minutes at work to open the links from Oakseeds to the Mayo page and it isn't a study at all. It is general guidance and it is going off of the CDC's recommendations, it's not citing any studies as proof, simply offering what the countries "experts" (CDC) says.

The first few sentences: "Can face masks help slow the spread of the virus that causes coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)? Yes. Face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as getting vaccinated, frequent hand-washing and physical distancing, can help slow the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends masks for the general public."

The John's Hopkins one isn't a study either, it is just an article and like the previous one it also is simply stating the CDC Guidance.

The first few sentences: "The CDC continues to monitor the spread of COVID-19 and makes recommendations for wearing face masks, both for those who are fully vaccinated as well as those who are not fully vaccinated. The CDC also recommends that masks and physical distancing are required when going to the doctor’s office, hospitals or long-term care facilities. Johns Hopkins Medicine’s current mask safety guidelines require all individuals, even if you are fully vaccinated and boosted against COVID-19, to wear masks inside our care facilities including all Johns Hopkins hospitals, care centers and offices."
 
i have been in 2 different hospitals as of late. (routine). No masks required for patients or employees. I was surprised actually. I figured that would be forever.
 
Here in NY you still have to wear a mask in any medical setting whether it is a routine Dr visit or a trip to the dentist. I was fortunate in that although they kept threatening to force them on all State employees, they never implemented it. I already had my ducks in a row though getting an exemption ahead of time but it never did come down the pipe.
 
I appreciate most everyone on this forum. Great people abound. I am an occupational safety professional of two dozen years who has been lead a lot of evaluation, assessment and industrial hygiene ventures.

Masks are like antler restrictions. They’re the quick and dirty way to get the vast majority of a crowd toward the end goal regardless of the details or the intelligence of those partaking. In all actuality- the disposable masks (tissues, dust masks, n95, p100) are all relatively ineffective. These are designed to filter the breathing air coming in. They’re all highly ineffective due to the mass produced shape, gaps relative to the perimeter not conforming to the users facial contour or restraint of the rubber bands or straps. Regardless of the variation in materials the nature of these are not allowed to be used in a work application for worker protection. Soley comfort (hay fever, saw dust, etc) that are well above the 5 micron benchmark of filtration measurement. Could go for days but here’s the point.

If a masks makes you feel better- use it. Could it make things worse? Yup. Will using thing whether dust masks, respirators, etc provide you safety from airborn illness? Not likely but refer to the first sentence of this paragraph. The govnt mandating them was the best catch call net to limit hysteria and spread rate they had or was at least the start of the social experiment they had wanted tor years.
 
N95, kn95- 95% effective in filtration to 5microns a perfect use lab scenario to a protection factor of 10. The “N” means not aerosol or liquid resilient or designed for such protection. The rattle can paint scenario mentioned above actually has a fair amount of solids involved,smoke similar.

Point is they’re not designed for respiratory protection of pathogens or threats much smaller than the human eye can see.

They’re not made to control/filter outward exhalation. This is why people hate wearing them at work. When properly fit and functional they’re a large stress on your cardiopulmonary system and fitness.

Are they better than nothing? Yup. Is our country falling apart with imposed division? Yup. I’d much rather befriend a contrarian or naysayer on this forum than someone from the govnt, WHO, wef, etc that agrees with my stance. Don’t depend on the masses. Find solutions and common ground.
 
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