Ma. Deer project leader being evasive.

[bat man]

Was not an effort to dictate to anyone ,,Do as you please its still a semi free country,, Another thought cry wolf enough and maybe sooner than later no one will hear it anymore , Let the audit move forward and the deer plan be implemented and I will bet the boogie man (DNR) will be all wrong no matter how it plays out . Some of the extreme deer pops will never happen for all kinds of reasons and some don't have anything to do with DNR

Who is crying wolf? You have info we are sharing that is not true?

Your suggestion that the ding dongs in charge now get a free pass to write the plan as they please is ridiculous.

 

[wooduck]

They have no plans to include hunters when they pen the written deer plan. Because they don't want to do as we request.

While you do speak for a vocal group of hunters in Minnesota , you do not speak for a recognized majority and the DNR represents all parties involved weather your group accepts that or not . Just saying theres more chairs at the table than what was at the meetings last spring and the DNR hears them also

 

[bat man]

...you do not speak for a recognized majority and the DNR represents all parties involved weather your group accepts that or not . Just saying theres more chairs at the table than what was at the meetings last spring and the DNR hears them also

I believe I do speak for the majority. The majority MN would appreciate a plan that addresses hot spots to the detriment of some interests, while protecting overharvest in the balance through laziness or ignorance to the situation.

Take a survey. Bet you get an easy majority.

Transparency. Accountability. The majority desire that. No survey required.

 

[buckvelvet]

At least batty is doing something and not sitting on his thumbs Dipper. I am not part of the MN war between state and hunter but I've watched it for awhile. At the very least you could respect the fact that he isn't talking out loud and blowing hot air, he's at least active. I get that you have different views than the MN guys Dip, that been obvious from numerous threads out there. However to continue to berate them for pursuing change that won't come seems harsh. How else do you thing ground swell movements have impacted government? Because 1 person decided to step forward and others followed.

 

[wooduck]

Woodduck....I, along with other concerned MN deer hunters, are waiting for your response. We are not expecting an intelligent one... just a response will do. Please tell me (a dumb MN deer hunter looking for leadership) who is the recognized majority? I am so tired of you state employees coming here (hiding behind the computer) spewing your rhetoric. If Batman isn't the answer, who is? Please enlighten us idiots!!!!

That's priceless state employee , believe what you wish ,, As far as recognized majority we are the hunters that don't give a rats ass about agendas , and max populations at any cost, horn porn , Max out the does so we can have multiple bucks to choose from , ect on and on , We are the hunters that can and will shoot a deer when we see it and eat it and its as simple as that , we care about hunting and know good deer hunting and just maybe enjoy it more some times not making it complicated , If its not to our liking we may change how we hunt and some of us don't care to be involved in political movements that will not change a thing long term . You all know us we are the guys that don't care about coops, or petitions or meetings , we may be that neighbor that shoots all the does and small bucks next door and are perfectly happy that way. Every so often we get lucky and shoot a big one maybe throw the rack on the self in the shed or give it to the dog to chew on . We don't care about horns, max populations , deer hunting is fun we go out shoot as many as we can with friends and maybe do some plotting .. You all know us we are the guys you cannot reach with your groups , you know the majority

And by the way I never called anyone dumb your words not mine, funny absolutely hilarious one little post about the leader and out come the minions

 

[dipper]

No matter what state it is these types of threads always go back to mn. relaxy.....

 

[Freeborn]

That's priceless state employee , believe what you wish ,, As far as recognized majority we are the hunters that don't give a rats ass about agendas , and max populations at any cost, horn porn , Max out the does so we can have multiple bucks to choose from , ect on and on , We are the hunters that can and will shoot a deer when we see it and eat it and its as simple as that , we care about hunting and know good deer hunting and just maybe enjoy it more some times not making it complicated , If its not to our liking we may change how we hunt and some of us don't care to be involved in political movements that will not change a thing long term . You all know us we are the guys that don't care about coops, or petitions or meetings , we may be that neighbor that shoots all the does and small bucks next door and are perfectly happy that way. Every so often we get lucky and shoot a big one maybe throw the rack on the self in the shed or give it to the dog to chew on . We don't care about horns, max populations , deer hunting is fun we go out shoot as many as we can with friends and maybe do some plotting .. You all know us we are the guys you cannot reach with your groups , you know the majority

And by the way I never called anyone dumb your words not mine, funny absolutely hilarious one little post about the leader and out come the minions

Wooduck, everyone has individual goals when it comes to hunting and the group is not trying to tell you how to hunt. The group wants honesty out of the DNR so hunters can make informed decisions about how they hunt. In addition, the group wants the DNR to work with hunters in a transparent fashion so hunters have an opportunity to participate in the management process.

You speak of the majority of hunters who don't care, that currently might be true but its based on a false belief the DNR is managing the resources in the hunters interest. This is not happening. We believe if hunters were aware of the poor condition the deer herd is currently in they would proactively work to improve the herd. I personally think many hunters want the deer herd to be healthy and sustainable for future generations, currently it is not.

 

[dipper]

:(

 

[wooduck]

No matter what state it is these types of threads always go back to mn.
These guys are nasty wood duck, as you see, you make any comment that isn't satisfactory to them, and they attack you.
Everyone needs a hobby.....

Dipper ,, you see the problem lies in the fact that some are fairly intolerant of other view points and that's fine im not here to change anyone my recent posts have more to do with pointing out that there are many,many ways to enjoy the outdoors and it seems one agenda is popular here .

The reason we don't care about deer management is we know that deer are very much capable of large population increases fast and it wont be many years and the numbers will be to high and multiple tags will flow like water. Theres plenty here if you double it , there will be problems in fact the DNR will not allow it and that's good

 

[wooduck]

It's not the hunters the dnr has to please, it's the public in general.
Hunters are just one group involved in the management process. The dnr isn't in the business of pleasing hunters. They are in the business of managing a resource as they see fit. The principals of that management are derived from the general public, as a whole. Not hunters!
You can convince yourself of self worth, but we as hunters are nothing more than a tool of the dnr to accomplish their goal.
We all have frustrations with the government for countless reasons. The fact of the matter is, the general public wants less deer. Hunters are the minority, hunters that really care, are the super minority. Exactly some of the reference in above posts , many chairs at the table in fact some chairs this group cannot recognize , The politicians will give you guys your due , but the same old story is going to get old soon in other words crying wolf to long and they will no longer even hear you
good luck as usual trying to change people. Especially with the demeanor you guys have, when you are faced with the slightest criticism.

 

[sandbur]

wooduck-I respect the rights of hunters to make good choices, assuming they have the legal tags to do so.

The problem is that area wildlife managers have not made good choices in doe tag allocations in the past. The managers need to get out int he field and concentrate on deer which pays so much of their salaries. They need the will power to find the hotspots and allocate tags in those small areas. They need to spend more of the deer hunters license dollars on deer management, instead of on Prairie chicken hunts, sandhill crane hunts, stocking more elk.
You may be in an area where area managers made good choices. I have seen the worst of it and it is time for them to pay attention.

THERE IS NO REASON TO ISSUE 8 OR 9 DOE TAGS IN AREAS WHERE HUNTERS CAN HUNT A WHOLE SEASON AND SEE 1 OR 2 DEER. SOMETHING IS DRASTICALLY WRONG AND THE AERIAL SURVEY SUPPORTED WHAT THE HUNTERS HAVE SEEN ON THE GROUND. THE COMPUTERS AND MODEL ARE WRONG.

 

[Freeborn]

It's not the hunters the dnr has to please, it's the public in general.
Hunters are just one group involved in the management process. The dnr isn't in the business of pleasing hunters. They are in the business of managing a resource as they see fit. The principals of that management are derived from the general public, as a whole. Not hunters!
You can convince yourself of self worth, but we as hunters are nothing more than a tool of the dnr to accomplish their goal.
We all have frustrations with the government for countless reasons. The fact of the matter is, the general public wants less deer. Hunters are the minority, hunters that really care, are the super minority.
good luck as usual trying to change people. Especially with the demeanor you guys have, when you are faced with the slightest criticism.

I can't disagree more, 500,000 paying customers is a very significant demographic of voters and when motivated can activate change. Part of our effort is to provide facts to hunters so they can understand what is happening with the deer herd. We are trying to convince hunters not tell them what to think.

The DNR does work for voters and to think otherwise is just ignorant. Then DNR may only have a dotted line to voters but they do work for the public. If you think we have no power how did the audit originate? If hunters don't argue for the own self interest then others will have their interests put into effect at the expense of hunters.

This will be a long term process with no end date. I'll also add it is healthy for the state to examine its functions that way they can improve themselves.

 

[dipper]

This will be a long term process with no end date.

There's no end....oh boy, god help us.

 

[bat man]

, As far as recognized majority we are the hunters that... ...don't care about horns,

Surveys would suggest otherwise.

 

[wooduck]

OK...I will be the first to admit....beers and blogging, not a great idea :oops: And you right WD, my assumption of the State employee, was wayyyy off.

Hypothetically- If I owned a fruit orchard or another type of growing business, I bet my opinions and posts would read quite differently. Fearing a larger deer population would scare the hell out of me. Lucky for growers here in MN their lobby is huge. Again hypothetically- If I owned a growing business, I would want the DNR to truly work with the guys and gals doing my pest extermination. Because if they don't, the exterminators will stop and then I would have what WI has.

Well most high value ag is fenced or the operators are fools, Yes there are a few orchards in Wisconsin that are not fenced in high deer density areas but there are fewer every year. once you put the fence up deer no longer matter in a business sense hypothetically

 

[buckvelvet]

I don't know the inter workings or the full agenda of the MDDI by any means. I don't recall much being talked about 'Horn Porn'. From I can tell they just want to see a #$*!'n deer when they go hunting and not be skunked 50% of the time in severely low deer pop areas. They want the herd to be given a chance to rebound with tag restrictions. As I see it they are looking for a better management of a public resource so that, THAT resource will continue in the future. It's hard to be worried about horn size when your pushing for just the resource to exist in the first place.

 

[buckvelvet]

The worst part about this is we are all passionate about the same animal. Why would some of you guys throw conflict or drama into the equation just to say 'yours is bigger'?

 

[wiscwhip]

A few? Every one I've visited has no fence. I'm sure there are others that are fenced, but I haven't seen them.

H#!! there are a bunch right up in Buffalo Co that I know are not fenced and they have densities in the 35-45 DPSM range consistently.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Seems like every thread lately somehow goes back to MN? And ends up in a bickering fest.

MA VT Flatlander...his reply to you does sound evasive. I have asked the same thing before. If you ever came out and hunted zone 1 (west of Rte. 8 in Northern Berkshire County) I think you would be shocked by the paucity of deer and turkey. It frustrates me. Back in the mid 80's through the 90's when turkey hunting first started you could go out on the last day of the season and still hear plenty of birds and call one in and have a good time. Today, it is hard to even locate a gobbler the weekend before the season opens. The forest is sterile...void of wildlife. His DPSM estimate to you for western Mass. is probably double what it actually is here around Mt. Greylock and environs.

 

[bat man]

MA VT Flatlander...his reply to you does sound evasive. I have asked the same thing before. .

Alt actually held classes on how to lower deer numbers without alarming the public. He pointed to WI as an example of what can happen when you do it too wrong. Many of Alts students are now leading deer orgs and DNR depts. You can laugh and say its conspiracy theory, or seek out the facts.