Logging Hemlock Stands

[MS2285]

A friend has bout 115 acres in central ny. The property has a couple areas where there is an over abundance of mature hemlock. while we understand the importance of mature evergreens for yarding hit the dead of winter, we are looking to thicken up a few areas of the property to increase bedding and browse. We're looking at about 13 acres of clear cuts in total. Mainly we want the deer to stay on the property longer. The mature hemlocks have shaded out all underbrush and the deer solely use it as transition moving quickly through.

Does anyone have any experience with having section of hemlock clear cut.? There is some timber value interspersed...cherry and what not...but not much. I know the marketable value for hemlock wood isn't very high at all. Just wonder if anyone has had any experience with bidding this out and what we can expect. We don't care if we just break even...we just want the clear cuts done. The NYDEC forester who did our forest stewardship plan mentioned that we might even be able to sell it for wood chips to be used in Fort Drum's power plant. Any thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[chickenlittle]

I assume the trees are healthy? Too far north and too cold for wooly adelgid? If it were me, i would not clear cut. I would thin but leave as many mature and healthy hemlocks as possible. Maybe leave 1 for every 3 or 4 trees cut. Put light on the ground for regen around each tree. Cover and browse, plenty of nice dry bedding spots.

 

[MS2285]

The hemlocks are mature and healthy. No signs of Adelgid. State forester didn't see any either and he spent a couple days there. Not sure if it's too far north or too cold. We're east of cortland.

Leaving scattered mature hemlocks is not a bad idea. the 13 acres would be split among 2 separate areas and accounts for probably only a 1/3 of the mature hemlock habitat on the property.

 

[chickenlittle]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/86382.html Here is the latest NYS map for Hemlock Woolly Adelgid.

HWA is getting closer to you. It was reported for the first time this year in several towns in Cortland county. I'd remove more now while it has value and you can get the mature trees out. I'd leave some younger trees that have less value but still will provide good cover. I've been planting spruce in PA to eventually replace the declining hemlocks. You'll likely get a large number hemlock seedlings too which makes nice cover too.

 

[MRBB]

a property I helped manage was heavy with hemlock, (whole property was not timbered in over a 100+ yrs, so mature tree's (hemlocks) was an understatement HAHA)
the deal we made with a local timber company was we wanted the large hemlocks gone, too many were breaking off at the tops and or tipping over(lot of swampy land) the deal we did was they offered to removed the hemlocks, as long as they could take some of the other prime timber.
we didn't do any full blown clear cutting, be we had areas that were super thick with hemlocks and very few if any other tree's in them area's.
we also let them leave tops too, we figured it would help thicken up the area faster, as a major issue with the property was very little cover due to suck mature tree's and hemlocks throughout the land, limited sun light getting to ground, and even worse one leafs formed, so actually removing some of the other tree's (cherry/oaks/beechnut/maple and likes) really helped get a better mix of new growth and reseeding happening.

but allowing for some selective timbering on other area's should allow you to have zero out of pocket expense, and maybe even put cash in your pocket!

its been 3 yrs now since this place was timbered like, and its filling in already! made a deer much more likely to stay on the land now, with more cover from both tree tops and the new things that popped up!

 

[MS2285]

That's exactly what we'd like to do. Hopefully there's enough quality in there to attract bids.

We have a very similar situation. Low lying property with poorly drained souls. The areas with the mature hemlock stands have near zero growth at ground level. You can see 100yds plus under them. Deer move through these areas fairly quickly to get to cover on neighboring properties. Plan is to slow them down with browse and safety cover.... and eventually have them bedding on the property in these areas.

 

[Diesel5610]

Not my property, but my best friends. We clear cut 60 acres out of a 300 acre property 7 years ago that was mostly mature hemlock. The understory was like a park and you could see forever, there was literally nothing for the deer. They just moved through the property. We worked with a Forester and it has pretty much worked out just as he predicted. I know it wasn't a money making affair but it got done and has totally transformed the property. The clear cut is now security cover and holds deer and mature bucks on the property, which didn't happen before the cut. I distinctly remember the forester saying the project was a tough nut to crack but he made it happen. Good luck.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'd leave some mature hemlocks for future regeneration, too. The hemlock wooly adelgid may eat itself out of house and home. ( I think I've read that they go for mature trees - not young hemlocks ). If you have a few mature hemlocks around to spread seed, you may get some good regeneration. As Chickenlittle said above, young hemlocks make good cover. I agree - one of my favorite hunting spots is polluted with young hemlocks, from 6" tall to 10 ft. tall and deer are in them for security. I've also planted a batch of spruce for cover ( again as Chickenlittle has mentioned ) where we've done logging at camp. Spruce are SUPER wind-blockers. We have deer bedding in our spruce areas now, where they didn't stick around before.

I might ask the local forester if the logging can be done at a time when hemlock cones are prime so a batch of seed can be harvested. The state forest nursery might be able to use those seeds to grow more new seedlings for sale or research. I'm thinking - " Why waste a good resource ?? "

Rough-sawn hemlock makes good board-and-batten siding. We've used it at my camp. FWIW.

 

[Chainsaw]

I'm in northern New York and we had hemlocks cut and got zero hemlock regeneration on the hemlocks which was expected. I received 20 to 22 cents a board ft. for the decent logs and 2 to 3 dollars a ton for chips. It added up to plenty, not like selling ash or maple saw logs but still there was payment to me with someone else doing all the work. An important thing about selling wood chips is that the buyers tend to buy only from certain loggers. So one logger who they don't buy from will have no market while the next logger will. There is a good business reason for buying chips from just certain loggers which I'll skip here. That's just how it is. So if your logger can not sell chips then changing loggers can change that. Note guys selling chips may or may not have as good a markets for saw logs compared to guys not selling chips. A few are good at selling both. So if you have a lot of saw logs you might not want to pick a logger just because he is tied into the chip market. I'm not in the business but just a landowner that worked closely with a great logger logging 400 acres over a three year period.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Chainsaw - Just curious for my own learning ..... did your hemlock logging leave lots of open, sunlit ground ?? Around my camp area, even after some logging, the most hemlock seedlings seem to pop up in shady or lightly shaded areas. Usually in lower, wetter areas. Some of the areas I'm talking about might have hundreds or thousands of baby hemlocks. Some of those areas got to look like hemlock " hedges ".

Just wondering what your logged area looked like.

 

[Chainsaw]

Chainsaw - Just curious for my own learning ..... did your hemlock logging leave lots of open, sunlit ground ?? Around my camp area, even after some logging, the most hemlock seedlings seem to pop up in shady or lightly shaded areas. Usually in lower, wetter areas. Some of the areas I'm talking about might have hundreds or thousands of baby hemlocks. Some of those areas got to look like hemlock " hedges ".

Just wondering what your logged area looked like.

Some is very wet, w/ poor drainage and some is sunlit and some shaded. I'll look it over extra careful when hunting it over the next few weeks to figure out what types of regrowth there is in the wet versus the dry and the sunny versus the shaded areas in the sections where the hemlocks were cut. The parts I've been in, the poplar and/or weeds have been the most noticeable regrowth. I'm expecting maple seedlings as well but haven't noticed them(they could be there though). That is super that you have such vigorous hemlock regrowth.

 

[H20fwler]

I'm all for selective harvest of renewable trees and it is great for the regrowth of understory plants and shrubs for wildlife. I saw my first mature Hemlock stand this past weekend in a marshy lowland in the UP...nothing short of impressive to this Ohio boy that can't get them to grow here.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

One thing about hemlock - if stranded in the woods, you can make tea from or even eat the youngest, most tender needles. Canadian hemlock ( the tree we're talking about ) is NOT poison hemlock. That's a whole other plant. Odds are none of us will ever have to use hemlock for sustenance, but we could, if in dire circumstances. Stands of hemlock are beautiful - and useful to many varieties of critters.