Large land owners

[roosterstraw]

Large land owners, how’d you do it? If you have a large amount of land (200+ acres), that wasn’t handed down to you and you’re not a doctor or make a crazy amount of money for your regular job, how’d you get to where you are? Was it by investing into land and selling to eventually get where you are? Did you buy little pieces at a time? Did you go into a large amount of debt? With land prices where they are today it seems very difficult for the blue collar guy to acquire large amounts of land without thinking outside of the box. I’d like to hear your stories and how you got to where you are in terms of land/acreage.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm in VA. I spent most of my hunting career hunting military bases and public land since moving from PA in my late 20s. I'm a Hunter Education instructor. I progressed fairly normally through the process of hunting and by my late 40s I began to start thinking more about wildlife management rather than just hunting and harvesting animals. I was lucky in that I moved from PA to VA during one of the real estate crashes and I was able to buy a house in an attractive area at the bottom of the market.

By the time I was in my 40s the house had appreciated significantly and I took out a home equity loan. I parked that money in the market while I was was beginning to look for a small property for hunting and eventual retirement. My passion at the time was bow hunting and I was looking for something in the 50-100 acre target in the general area where I hoped to retire. This had been a couple year project by this time. I happened to be chatting with another HE instructor and he mentioned that his son was looking to do the same thing. We got together and began chatting. It turned out that both of us had seen a pine farm for sale but it was way out of the price range of either of us. It happened to be in the right general area. My HE instructor friend also had a couple neighbors who were like-minded hunters.

We all got together and formed an LLC. The LLC purchased the pine farm and we all held shares in the LLC. It is just under 400 acres. Not nearly enough to do QDM, but I was not as well versed on the limitation at that point. We got lucky in that we have a couple large landowner neighbors that are cooperating with us to some degree, so we are on the ratty edge of being able to do successful QDM. We ended up buying at the top of the market and the land is now worth a fraction of what we paid for it, but I don't regret the purchase at all. It has been a great ride.

I got lucky with appreciation of my home that gave me the resources to buy in to the LLC. I'm also fortunate in that my job allowed me to save for retirement independently of this purchase. I'll be moving from what is, at least today, a high value real estate area to an area where homes are more modestly priced. When I sell my home and retire in the next year or two, I should be able to pay off the home loan and have enough left over to build a retirement home. Our retirement home will be about a 15 minute drive from the pine farm.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[bigboreblr]

I am not a lrge land owner. But work with several. two got business loans, the other had a side business. One has a tree farm / ag leasing. The other does organic meat and has a side business doing butchering. The cattle guy has a friend at work that could have a large bit of property if he spent his dough better. He does tree trimming services on the side. Climbing up them and cutting them down around houses. ONe guy at work has a older tractor, brush hog, and trailer. He put an ad out for brush hogging in exchange for hunting. He hunts a 300 acr place by himself. Rich folks just dont want him using a rifle when they're there.

Im on a 600 acre land lease with about 15 other guys. Only 4 or 5 are semi-seriious hunters. You get some aggrivation from guys who want to party there. Loud music at night / running generator in the morning / more atv riding than hunting...... Hard to do QDM there, but the place or the neighbors lease is logged almost year round. We may get a 100 acre spot picked of mature yellow birch or spruce trees. Can do some habitat stuff, but things are limited. Small plots here n there, keeping areas brushy. keep trails clear for younger growth. I love flicntlocks, NY has a mid october muzzleloading week of hunting before the north adirondacks open to rifle. I have been taking time off every year for muzzleloading for a decade. Only 2 times I have had another member there. I'm easy on the booze, the atv, and how deep I wander into the woods being by myself, but have a great time for 200-300 bucks a year membership. I do about 2 acres of food plots, one being a snowmobile trail with a side plot, a 1/2 acre spot, and (2) 1/10th acre shooting lanes with grains n clover.

I volunteer in the snowmobile club. A few members who help out often get to hunt landowners places..... Some guys kind of adopt a spot and plant in the trail like I do. A few apples trees alongside a trail too.

I work around the catskill mountains in NY. Get a place there with a few acres near hunting land cheap. Improve that property while you hunt neighboring state land too. Anything public is BARELY hunted at all during bow, muzzle, and small game weekend. There is easily 8,000 acres within 15 minutes of where I work. Besides opening weekend of rifle, you get hte place to yourself.

The next decade, cash is going to be king. Dollar likely wont come back as strong and more people are less self sufficient. Cant fix the stuff around them. Hands on people will be earning more than the desk folks. Desk jobs including fancy ones like lawyers are easy to be replaced by a computer, just sorting data in many cases.

Keeping my eyes on the prize, but keeping the wife in mind. She wants something on the ocean. I want something near an inlet. Saving up for a place in topsail island NC. Im lucky with a brother in law who has a farm. Food plots planted for free............

Stuff adds up. Fixing stuff around the house yourself. Not buying 48 rifles. Keeping that old car for a few more miles. Firewood is starting to be a good idea again.

Another old coworker of mine stopped buying stupid stuff for a year or two, hit up overtime when it was around, put a down payment on 100 acres and a trailer. He started a small hunting club with buddies from work. They pitch in some, he pays the bulk of it though, but keeps the land. All paid off now..........

 

[Kev]

Bill Winke who started "Midwest Whitetail" has a very interesting story on how he accumulated nearly 1000 acres on his blog. Check it out.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Until some more people who are actually large landowners can chime in, I will just drop a few links to some podcasts about purchasing land.

I think one of the more savvy people in this space is Bill Winke. Here is a link to a podcast that goes into several of his strategies:

Mark Drury on the Wired to Hunt podcast on purchasing land: https://www.themeateater.com/listen/wired-to-hunt/ep-365-what-would-mark-drury-do

Here is an episode with a guy from Whitetail Properties that is more generalized:

Here is a link to a podcast I haven't listened to but looks like it will be great content: https://getpodcast.com/podcast/the-...th-these-crazy-prices-brian-haugen_89d2b056fa

 

[FarmerDan]

Large land owners, how’d you do it? If you have a large amount of land (200+ acres), that wasn’t handed down to you and you’re not a doctor or make a crazy amount of money for your regular job, how’d you get to where you are? Was it by investing into land and selling to eventually get where you are? Did you buy little pieces at a time? Did you go into a large amount of debt? With land prices where they are today it seems very difficult for the blue collar guy to acquire large amounts of land without thinking outside of the box. I’d like to hear your stories and how you got to where you are in terms of land/acreage.

I'm sitting here staring at this and I so badly want to offer specifics but I can't. I won't. Ok, well my wife's grandfather won it in a poker game! I'm kidding - about me, but I know of an individual who's grandfather actually did just that. A story for another time.

There's a point in there. This box, this idea that you can acquire "large" pieces of land while in that undefined box -well, it's not going to happen. Oh, maybe if you want to live a sore lifestyle that deprives you and those close to you other experiences and opportunities common to life today you maybe could. Another story for another time. Here's the trailer (think movies, not mobile homes). I have a friend who's family, his father and his sister's brother did land speculation on a shoestring. My friend tells stories of eating ketchup sandwiches and answering the phone and creditors knocking on their doors demanding payment. It ended well as they eventually struck it rich in selling very expensive lots to homebuilders. But he's still impacted by it today. To see him you'd think he was one of the poorest guys in the neighborhood. Individually, he's worth millions and not comfortable for it. I guess that's outside the box.

If your looking to buy land I think you need to realize there is no "outside the box." However, do know there are many other boxes where all kinds of different land buyers (and sellers) operate. You are competing with them in a game few understand...unless you happen to be in one of those big boxes. They tend to know when to buy, when it's a deal (there are few deals to be found in a lifetime). There's a theme worth exploring. It's not what you think the value of the land is today its about what you think the value of the land will be long-term. There are too many things to consider. Tax swaps, land trades, value of the production from the land...on -and-on about cash combing I don't understand.

Now someone can say, yea but....

Chapter 2 later.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I’m not larger per se. I own 250 acres. Bought it at 37 and paid it off at 38. I just didn’t make stupid decisions with money. Never had a lot of debt, didn’t buy new trucks all the time, still have a 2006 4 wheeler and not some brand new side by side. Helped we didn’t have our child until i was 40 but if you already do it’s not a deal breaker. But to me land was a dream and all other things were roadblocks (minus necessities of course).

 

[bwoods11]

I started with 80 acres at age 29 or 30. Bought and sold several farms and I have a couple that I’ve bought and still have them .

Buying up, improving farms and then selling them. I like what I have now 300+acres in Iowa, and 400+ acres In Minnesota, but they are mostly smaller parcels in Minnesota with 160 ac. being the biggest .

It’s been a life long venture, and I’m about done I think . Maybe a couple additions ? Who knows .

The best advice is start somewhere, unfortunately the prices are so dang high. Good luck !

 

[buckdeer1]

I started with a 65 acre timber that the farmer said wasn't worth anything so I paid 500 an acre for it and combined that note with a triplex I had just bought.The rent paid all but a couple hundred of expenses a year.Got some of that paid off then bought an adjoining 40 then an adjoining 80,then another 80 that adjoined then another 40 that ties together.I did inherit 30 acres that my dad had bought when I bought the first 80.He paid that off with ag and an oil well that was on it.Too bad the well went from 500 every month to 100 every few months.I still have triplex and it now costs me a couple thousand a year the time I get farm and CRP payments.I am down to around 20 acres of CRP but for 15 years I made a couple months payments off it.Check out The Land Podcast,Jake is trying to help 100 regular people buy land and has lots of different guys that have done it and how they did it

 

[westonwhitetail]

Here’s a link to Bill Winke’s log that he details how he did it. Pretty interesting to see how he did it.

Dream Farm P1: The First Purchase - Bill Winke

Winke Farm: Starting with $12,000 in 1995, I ended up creating a whitetail hunting dream farm of nearly 1,000 acres over the next 13 years.

billwinke.com

I’m on step one, hopefully I can tell you how I did it in 10 years or so ha

 

[SwampCat]

I own about 350 acres. I bought my first 12 acres in 2003. I have bought land six different times. 300 acres are contiguous and six miles away is another 60 I own. The last 40 I bought, I still have 5 years on the note. Most parcels I didnt borrow any money. My biggest mistake was not financing more of it. I could have bought 1400 acres in the mid 90’s for $600,000. I ended up paying more than that for the 350 acres I bought. There is still 70 acres I would like to buy. Could have bought it for $3000 an acre 9 years ago if I would have financed. They now want $6000 an acre. I dont need the land - just dont want someone putting some chicken or hog houses on it. Land prices are obscene right now and not likely to get better for some time.

I have had a second job of some sort all my life, or I would probably only own the first 12 acres.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Here’s a link to Bill Winke’s log that he details how he did it. Pretty interesting to see how he did it.

Dream Farm P1: The First Purchase - Bill Winke

Winke Farm: Starting with $12,000 in 1995, I ended up creating a whitetail hunting dream farm of nearly 1,000 acres over the next 13 years.

billwinke.com

I’m on step one, hopefully I can tell you how I did it in 10 years or so ha

Holy cats. Only got through the first part thus far.

Step 1 - Find a wife who's happy to let you chase your dreams of land ownership, spend all your family's money in that pursuit, and be a slave to your loans.

Edit: read through the rest of it. Fascinating story. Seems like it would be harder to pull off now days but it might have seemed that way back then too!

 

[Apple Junkie]

Large land owners, how’d you do it?

Our camp is 100 acres of ground that is largely unsuitable for farming. I say "our" because a friend and I pooled our "play" money to purchase this property just for hunting and recreation. Any money we have made, or increase in value, is just a side benefit. Consider pooling your money with a few like minded friends and you can spread the burden of taxes an upkeep. Also, the camaraderie you will develop is priceless. Just a suggestion... good luck.

 

[Triple C]

Own 350 acres in total. 287 at the farm and the balance where we built our retirement home.

Started with 214 acres in 2010. I was 55. Kids were grown and off my payroll. Financed 50%. Could easily afford the land payment.

Bought the adjoining 73 acres in 2012. Used the equity in my original purchase to finance the entire amount. Cut back on vacations and such and by 2017 had it all paid for.

I've since bought more but not at the farm - 56 acres where we built our retirement home and 12 acres that surrounded my son.

Prescription that worked for me:
1. Be patient. I was in my mid-50's before I purchased my 1st tract and was financially able to make it happen.
2. Get pre-approved by local land lending facility - Farm Credit in our area and determine how much you can bite off to start.
3. Be patient again and look at many tracts. I spent several months looking at multiple tracts of land with my realtor that specialized in land sales. Looked at a number of nice tracts. But knew the day I laid eyes on my original 214 acre purchase that it was the tract for me. Fell in love with it day one and still love it just as much if not more today than the day I looked at it.
4. Keep socking away funds for future purchases. Following year I bought the adjoining tract and was able to use equity in 1st tract to finance 100% as I had put down 50% on original purchase. Did the 100% by choice as by then I could handle the additional payment due to putting so much down on 1st acquisition.
5. And finally, in my area, planted loblolly is very common. Both tracts had well established stands of pine plantation when I purchased. I knew I would generate revenue over the long-term from the sale of pine timber. Did my 1st thinning in 2015/16 and covered about 20% of my cost of land. Scheduled for another thinning this year of my 22 yr old stand (105 acres), and final harvest of my 32 yr old stand, (65 acres). Over the life of the pine stand, I will pretty much pay for land purchase. I will replant to the 65 acres in improved loblolly after harvest and start the process all over again to provide future revenue to children/grandchildren.

I don't know where you are located, but a consideration for many land buyers is the ability to generate future revenue from your land. Not a deal breaker if that is not the case but certainly an added bonus that needs to be figured in to your strategy and purchase.

I turn 66 in a couple of months. I've got my eye on the adjoining 110 acres at the farm that is currently in cattle. Owner doesn't live there but runs cattle on it. Figure it's just a matter of time until he wants to sell it and keeping my powder dry for that day. Probably cost me double per acre from my original purchase but 10 years from now, it will be worth more than it is today.

This is longer than I intended to write. But lastly, I personally like land as a long-term investment. Cash tends to get spent by most folks. Not so with land. You can't spend it. You can walk on it, hunt it, recreate on it, grow timber on it, farm it, make memories with family and friends and in my case, get more pure enjoyment from it than any other asset than I can think of. And in the end, it will most always appreciate in value. You kids and grandkids will remember you if you're long gone and they decide to sell it for a nice profit.

Best of luck to you! Hope you make it happen.

 

[hunts_with_stick]

What's crazy now is the market! Land around here literally sells the day it gets on the market (unless it is over $150k, then it might be a couple of days). It is insane! I looked at 23 acres a month ago that had offers the day it went on market and it was near straight down! No way would i have bought it, unless it was super cheap - even then not sure I would have due to no real value other than timber??. I couldn't image who bought that and for what purpose?

 

[SwampCat]

This land market is unlike any other I have seen in my 66 years. According to our county appraiser, average pasture ground - not hay land - increased in value from $1800 per acre to $3200 in the past two years. Then add in out of staters coming in and buying up that same land that is valued at $3200 an acre - because it has a view or a creek - they offer a rancher $10k per acre for land he had never dreamed of selling, but couldnt resist the crazy money, and now everyone thinks they need to sell mediocre pasture ground for $10k. This stuff wont even grow a pine tree - cedar, honey locust, and persimmon is what likes this ground.

I would be very concerned buying land at these prices if I was considering it an investment. These interest rates go up, free money dries up, stock market stagnates - you might be trying to sell for a long time. People forget very quickly. I know a guy who sold some land last year. He had been trying to sell it for five years before and not hardly a smell. Pandemic comes along and boom, sells pretty quick. He is looking to buy another piece and thinks there just isnt anything that is going to change with the current real estate market. Yes - it will change - as it always has. My dad bought 24 acres in NW Missouri in 1984 for $1800 an acre. It appraised in 2004 for $1800 an acre. Real estate is about timing. Now is a great time to sell and a horrible time to buy

 

[Troubles Trees]

With markets so far out of whack right now things are different, but the approaches can be similar most of the gains are generally made through sweat equity or harvesting mature timber.
I could only afford to buy a rough fixer upper house that sat on 8 acres I intended as a flip house, at the time I was feeding 3 kids and 2 adults including myself and was tired of renting. It was a dump and needed a lot of work but I bought for $24k and is now worth $95k after investing $30k in materials for the remodel. 9 years after I moved in, the house was paid off and the 22 acres next door went up for sale so I bought it, but keep it separated from the house for tax purposes. I have planted roughly 1,300 trees, shrubs and berry bushes that cost me a couple thousand total, but that investment and sweat equity will more than double the value of the land by the time it passes to the next owner and that doesn't count general land price increases over time. Houses and property in general are not on the market long around me these days, most are sold before the sign goes in the front yard so it is a good time to own or sell, but a terrible time to buy.
If one was a carpenter they could buy a dump of a house that sits on 100 acres, make modest remodeling changes with the house as well as landscaping improvements for curb appeal, then sell the house and keep the land for very little out of pocket cost in the end. Where I live, undeveloped land goes for $1,200-$1,500 per acre so that scenario plays better for me than someone that lives where land is $5,000 per acre.

 

[jsasker007]

Another issue with owning large chunks of land is getting to pay large chunks of money every year in taxes. I would think that's only going way up with our current "leaders".

 

[yoderjac]

Another issue with owning large chunks of land is getting to pay large chunks of money every year in taxes. I would think that's only going way up with our current "leaders".

That probably changes by location. Our area has several land use programs that you can enroll large tracts of qualifying land in that defer a large percentage of the tax burden.

 

[SwampCat]

Another thing to explore - dont be afraid to ask someone if they are willing to sell - even if there is no for sale sign. I have bought property six times. One time was there a for sale sign. I inquired with about selling some land in 1995 - he finally sold me some land in 2004. If a “for sale sign” goes up in my area, it means all the family members and all the locals have already declined to buy it. Word travels like wildfire. If a rancher even mentions to his buddy - I ought to sell that swamp down in the bottoms and cut my losses - he will be getting phone calls about it tomorrow. If there is a “for sale sign” on a piece of property in my area - probably something wrong with it.