Its simply time to jump in

[SmallChunk]

Gophers are starting to be an issue for me with all of my sand around. I think I might try trapping them this year. Bur, I remember you saying at times when planting a new tree you add something to the hole to keep them away. What was that?

 

[Jim Timber]

I used crushed marble around mine. Hopefully it keeps the diggers from being interested.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I use pea-sized limestone gravel for the sharp edges. I pile it on top of the landscape cloth about 3 to 4" deep right up to the window screen. We have a batch of mice / voles at my camp & that works for us. Bulk limestone is cheap here and landscape cloth I get for $9.99 for a 100 ft. roll x 4ft. wide. That'll do 25 trees and no weeds come up thru the limestone.

 

[sandbur]

Gophers are starting to be an issue for me with all of my sand around. I think I might try trapping them this year. Bur, I remember you saying at times when planting a new tree you add something to the hole to keep them away. What was that?

I have added some strychnine gopher bait to the holes.
Stu-that will be interesting to see if the crushed granite will work at keeping them away. I suspect it will not work as the gophers can come in 1-2 feet deep.

 

[strawhead]

FWIW- I have planted and continue to plant fruit trees every year on my 60acres. Over the last 14 years specifically for attracting whitetails. I don't know a fraction of what most know here about growing fruit tress BUT if I had to do it all over again, I would have planted wayyyy more crabapples first. The deer in my area love them and they sure are a lot less finicky.

Fish.....Is there any other info that would get me going in the right direction? I am like "foggy" when it comes to growing apple trees at our place."Me and apple trees are not on speaking terms". My only goal is to get something started for the deer. I may try some from the place "NovF" has mentioned, Deer Candy Tree. Looking for something as low maintenance as possible, yet hardy for a nw WI winter. Thanks

 

[strawhead]

Thanks....I have been over miles and miles of this woods on foot since 1980. I have come across what I believe to be old logging camps(small clearings with grass and maybe a can or two, old stove pipe, a few boards from a building long gone and other old artifacts). I can only think of 2 spots where I have ever found an apple tree. These were some sort of crab(I believe). I tried 3 apple trees from Steins spring of 2012. I thought did well all year into winter. Nothing turned green spring of 2013. After reading volumes on this forum I am dedicated to getting something growing for the grandkids and the deer we hope to sustain for them. I thank all who have contributed their wisdom and experiences. Our area of big woods lacks both hard and soft mass. Food plots, stem count, and other habitat improvements are progressing nicely. Now I need to get my soft mast started and follow with hard mast.

 

[sandbur]

Straw- I am just a student of Smsmith, Maya, and Crazy Ed. Please chime in here fellas. I believe these guys have forgot'en more about fruit trees than I will ever know!!!

IME - Crab apples are very forgiving with regards to growing and the deer love them. In my area, Dolgos are bullet proof. Everything eats the fruit (I have witnessed coons, grouse, pheasants, squirrels, and deer eating them), they grow relatively fast, disease resistant, cold tolerant, and once mature put down a bunch of fruit. So why didn't I plant 10 of them right away...because I made it too complicated. Go figure, an engineer making it to complicated :rolleyes:. I would look around your area and see what is native or what others have planted with success. Then copy that. For deer, KEEP IT SIMPLE. 2-4 different species, planting a couple each year over as many years as you want. Which brings up another thought, better to plant less trees/year and take the time to cage, screen, and rock.

I do not know what the soils or climate is in NW Wis. for strawhead, but I am about 50 miles north of fish and also have some land well up into USDA zone 3 by foggy. somehow apple trees are much slower growing and more of a challenge up there. Light soil, rainfall shortage during most years, and maybe not enough light in small clearings in the woods. From here on out, I am only planting crab apples up there. I know three varieties that will produce apples up there, chestnut crab, dolgo, and a rootstock crab.

These are also good choices for deer where I live at the edge of zone 3 and zone 4.

A good choice might be to just buy a variety of hardy rootstocks and let them grow as is. Dolgo seedling rootstock,, b118's might work and if you ever find any colombia rootstock give it a try (and please share the colombia rootstock source with me)

 

[strawhead]

Thanks guys....I have learned a lot( I think) since my 2012 try. No clue what rootstock, CAR, disease resistance was then. Just tried apple trees. I most certainly will go with some crabs of some kind beside that deer candy apple if I decide to try that route. Not sure about the deer candy apple??? Seems tooo BOB.??

 

[sandbur]

I like that fish. Must have some dolgo blood in it.

 

[deepsleep]

No the Monsanto hate is everywhere these days and running rampant approaching religion levels at times , Love gly use here best thing since sliced bread but not on my trees so much work and cash goes into them , wouldn't want anyone to be hurt by lack of information , Share if you think its worthy , that's all I implied

I agree with this. Too much time/money invested in them to take a chance spraying with gly. Lumite is relatively expensive, but how much time/money will spraying require over the 10+ years the lumite will last. Another benefit of Lumite is the moisture holding properties. I live 1000 miles from my farm and haven't lost a lumited tree to drought. Also, 10 trees will be a breeze to plant. We pre-cut cage, window screen and lumite. We also mark the sites with flags. It is then a matter of drilling holes with a Stihl one man auger (12" tree planting auger attachment), adding watersorb to the backfill, dipping the tree in watersorb slurry and planting. Next, we pour a bucket of water on to settle the roots. We then pound in a t-post and conduit (in line with the tree, so the lumite fits), staple down the lumite with a total of 11 or 12 staples, add the window screen, and wire up the cage. Finally, we wire an aluminum tree tag (also pre-made) to the t-post) My wife and I did these 12 trees in a couple of hours last spring. Very easy if you are prepared.



Note the lumite holding back the clover!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Cool pix in post #84, Fish !! I like to see trees that are loaded like that. Lots of droppers for the deer & turkeys.

 

[Maya]

There is no problem using gly if you don't get them on the trees, it's that simple. I have a rep that comes and tours my orchards every year from Crop Production Services. He has always suggested I use gly and Simazine for my ground maintenance. He has a lot of other sprays that he sells but even he can not justify the cost of them for smaller orchards like mine. We also had a talk on ground maintenance a couple years ago at our state fruit growers meeting and they talked extensively about using gly, 2,4 - D, etc.. UVM is trying to promote using mulch as they have a big pro organic agenda, but they even talked about it quite extensively at the talk when talking about their IPM blocks. The only caution they gave was to not get gly, 2, 4-D or sulfosate on green tissue and to be careful on green bark of young trees . Spraying for bare ground also has an added benefit for slightly warmer temps around your tree to aid against spring time cold snaps/ frosts. Also if used after weeds are grown up some, you have the added benefit of regularly adding organic material to the soil, which you do not get with the use of materials like lumite.

Many of the orchards here are using it here. Some bigger orchards are using other products but they are doing so as they are safer if trees are hit, and they last longer once sprayed, but they can handle the added cost. I haven't lost a tree yet w/ gly. I've got between 1200-1300 trees. You just need to use proper precautions such as the use of hoods on sprayers, larger droplets on properly calibrated sprayers and only spraying when wind is at a minimum.

 

[deepsleep]

Maya, do you hand spray your young trees? How old do they have to be before the bark is "hardened" enough to allow for some gly contact without risk? Also, when pruning root/trunk suckers, how long until the wounds are healed enough to safely spray? I just have never had the courage to risk it, but as my trees get older and the lumite falls apart, I need to. I'm guessing the lumite provides more warmth then bare ground, but I had looked at that as more of a risk then benefit, worrying the sap may start running too early. Also, lumite does make it more difficult to fertilize and/or add organic material. I hadn't thought of the free organic material in the form of dead weeds, but that makes sense.

 

[TMIL]

The concrete remesh is on sale at Menards, kinda. An 11% mail-in rebate for in-store credit is sort of a crappy sale.

http://www.menards.com/main/buildin...-x-150-reinforcing-mesh/p-1479879-c-12502.htm

I'm gonna go ahead and pick up enough for this year. January is flying by and it really won't be too long before Turkey Creek is ready to ship trees. I'm going to watch for sales this year for the trees I already have on hold for Spring 2016.

 

[TMIL]

re: the cages, 10 cages per 150' roll worked great for me.

re: mat, Lumite works great. It's not cheap, you have to buy more than you'll need for the 10 trees you're planting now, and shipping isn't cheap. Nevertheless, it works great and your new tress are worth it!

Suggest getting the Lumite from www.bigrocktrees.com

- Lot2Learn

I tried to order a roll of lumite, but bigrocktrees.com won't let me check out. It wants me to enter a payment method, but there are no choices showing up. John?!?!?!?!

 

[Maya]

Maya, do you hand spray your young trees? How old do they have to be before the bark is "hardened" enough to allow for some gly contact without risk? Also, when pruning root/trunk suckers, how long until the wounds are healed enough to safely spray? I just have never had the courage to risk it, but as my trees get older and the lumite falls apart, I need to. I'm guessing the lumite provides more warmth then bare ground, but I had looked at that as more of a risk then benefit, worrying the sap may start running too early. Also, lumite does make it more difficult to fertilize and/or add organic material. I hadn't thought of the free organic material in the form of dead weeds, but that makes sense.

Yes I use a backpack sprayer. I try and cover up any root suckers that have been cut or pulled up. If I see one, I simple spray around it. The guy that mentioned the organic material said he recommends letting the weeds get up some rather than keeping it totally bare all the time. Then again he advised to get it bare around the trees going into winter to help keep vols away, and also that bare ground is actually warmer for the trees going into and during blossom time. It could be the difference of 1-3 degrees, which can make all the difference of as good crop or not.

 

[sandbur]

Maya-could grass around the base of a tree delay ripening by a week or so?

Slower start equals later ripening or not?

 

[Maya]

Maya-could grass around the base of a tree delay ripening by a week or so?

Slower start equals later ripening or not?

Not that I've heard off. That's not to say I am right, just never heard that before. That talk I am speaking of talked real extensively though on ground maintenance and guarding against late frosts/cold, and they did not mention that. We had 3-4 experts talking about late frosts and no mention of that theory. I also went to another field day/ talk at an orchard in NH last summer that was about poor return blooms/ fruit set, and they did not mention that. They did get into ground maintenance quite a bit, so there may have been some research on that, but these guys did not mention it.

 

[deepsleep]

Yes I use a backpack sprayer. I try and cover up any root suckers that have been cut or pulled up. If I see one, I simple spray around it. The guy that mentioned the organic material said he recommends letting the weeds get up some rather than keeping it totally bare all the time. Then again he advised to get it bare around the trees going into winter to help keep vols away, and also that bare ground is actually warmer for the trees going into and during blossom time. It could be the difference of 1-3 degrees, which can make all the difference of as good crop or not.

That does make sense as far as promoting healthy soil. When my lumite goes away (some on 5th year still looking good), I will probably try to spray once in early spring with gly/simazine and let them go. I have a very limited number of days to work on my trees, but I hope to live there part of the year when I retire. Thanks for all the info Maya!

 

[TMIL]

Can someone please remind me what size window screen is commonly used? I'm going to pick up the rest of the planting supplies very soon. Thanks!