It passed!

Its becoming more and more apparent that deer hunters in many states have been too lackadaisical and apathetic for way too long. There really is a need for a nationwide group with some "teeth"...
Either that or Brooks is gonna have to take the MDDI show on the road

Many hunters were lulled to sleep the last 10 years in MN by snake charmers like the Bernie Madoff's from the MDHA and QDMA. All we heard was everything was all right....drink the Kool-Aid kids, drink the Kool-Aid!

But I agree, more hunters in different states should be standing up to there own Dnr's and giving them the beating they deserve!
 
I could not agree more Stu. I really started noticing things going bad 6 years ago and 3 MDHA chapters ago. It was brought to the attention of chapter officials and it went no where from there. I still think a lot of chapters had there hands tied with no way to get any traction going, to rectify the problem. I too, blame Mark Johnson, but have to blame the hunters of MN for not speaking up collectively and sooner, myself included!
 
I could not agree more Stu. I really started noticing things going bad 6 years ago and 3 MDHA chapters ago. It was brought to the attention of chapter officials and it went no where from there. I still think a lot of chapters had there hands tied with no way to get any traction going, to rectify the problem. I too, blame Mark Johnson, but have to blame the hunters of MN for not speaking up collectively and sooner, myself included!
The key is, once this audit is done and you start to make some positive changes in your deer management, the hunters of MN need to stay on top of this type of thing moving forward, DO NOT let history repeat itself in 5 or 10 years. Speak up sooner and louder and don't take DNR spewed rhetoric as the only solution to an issue. MDHA(or someone else if need be) needs to step up and be proactive in the discussions with the MN DNR on herd management issues. Enough of the reactive management that has gripped MN over the past 10+ years.
 
Yes, I know that to be true. That said, I can remember communicating with Art quite a few years ago (8-10?) about the problems in MN (when I still lived in WI). At that time I remember thinking "no way can MN deer management really be that messed up"...how wrong I was :oops:....and that was long before the real dog poop hit the fan.

I do largely put the blame for our current situation on the MDHA. The DNR is the DNR...they do what they do. On the other hand, the MDHA is supposed to only be concerned with the deer herd and deer hunters of MN. It sure seems to me that Mark Johnson was/is largely responsible for how weak kneed MDHA has been in recent history. The guy always had his eye on another job and couldn't pi$$ anyone in politics off in order to attain that goal. I'm hopeful that Craig Engwall doesn't have those same aspirations...and right now it appears he has much more backbone than his predecessor. Only time will tell I suppose.


I have to smile, Stuart. Communicating and some other discussions with us on opposite sides of the issues. It was many years before we finally met, thanks to a little lady from Mn.

How many years-maybe even 15??

Thanks for all of the projects you have helped me with and the information that you have shared!

MDHA has been dragging it's feet in the past. I hope that changes.

We need new, younger blood or else a different organization.
 
West Branch, I was implying that I think Grund would prefer to use biology rather than sociology to establish population goals. If that were done, I'd pretty much guarantee than 20 DPSM would be the highest densities managed for.

I was probably over thinking it some, which tends to happen. But I do think it sounds like a cop-out on Grund's part to say he isn't managing deer based on biology. Even though the goals are socially there is helluva of a lot of stuff they can do based biology to get to those goals. When a population model shows that large areas have virtually flat populations over 10+ years of extra antlerless tags you would think that a biologist would question that and look into it.

The couple email exchanges I had with Grund were as follows:
Me - Whats the deal with these DPSM #s in our permit area from year to year.
Grund - You have to look at the bigger picture over longer periods of time, not just minor year to year changes.
Me - So in the big picture, what about the harvest drop of 30%+ over 5 years but the model only being down 7%?
Grund - well if we look at year to year changes they aren't as significant.
Me - how is a 25% harvest drop when both years were managed "minor".
Grund - you have to look at the big picture.

And he just keeps flipping back and forth. I talked to him on the phone some and had some other ridiculous email exchanges that were essentially the same. If we switched to 100% biology I think he would flip and say well we should be using more sociology.

Hopefully this audit + a written deer management plan will create some accountability.
 
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