Is the hunting industry selling us garbage?

[ncstewart]

I am not scared to say I use one on most hunts. I used one from a friend for an entire year before I bought one. Deer downwind seem to all have a similar reaction when using it. A lot of different factors but I have enough confidence that I drag it along, even though it is a pain in the butt.


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Man I’m really not talking smack about any product. I have always just thought fooling any wild animals smell is kinda crazy. If people have confidence in it then use them. I feel a confident hunter is a more capable hunter. I do wish new hunters though would not get so wrapped up in the toys. I know people that think they have to have all this stuff to hunt. I just wish more “main stream” voices would encourage hunting first and getting the toys once you can.


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[Bowsnbucks]

Just don’t type at me in all CAPS.

When I use CAPS - it's for emphasis - not anger!!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

This made me remember scented chewing gum to cover your breath.

I actually DO chew teaberry gum when hunting - for whatever good it does to "cover" my breath - but also it tastes good!!!!!

 

[Moundhill]

This is a great thread, I can’t watch any of the hunting shows on outdoor channel today, with the exception being Heartland Bowhunter. I understand that these shows get their money from their sponsors, so they need to push there products, but I’m sick of them trying to shove it down your throat. These shows just flaunt their money and make everyone think they’re great hunters. Wrong! Rant over. I’ll admit I’ve bought into some bogus products when I first started hunting and didn’t know any better. But at the end of the day, property management and solid hunting techniques trumps all.

 

[yoderjac]

This is a great thread, I can’t watch any of the hunting shows on outdoor channel today, with the exception being Heartland Bowhunter. I understand that these shows get their money from their sponsors, so they need to push there products, but I’m sick of them trying to shove it down your throat. These shows just flaunt their money and make everyone think they’re great hunters. Wrong! Rant over. I’ll admit I’ve bought into some bogus products when I first started hunting and didn’t know any better. But at the end of the day, property management and solid hunting techniques trumps all.

Probably the worst thing I find with some of the hunting shows is the trend toward making it a competition.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I have to post this - years ago the Wensel brothers, Gene and Barry - said that commercializing hunting and "pay-to-hunt" trends would ruin hunting. It seems they were right. These "pay big money to hunt private properties" have become a disease. I don't watch the outdoor channel anymore because of all the BS "monsters" and the competition of "teams" to rack up as many big bucks as possible. The disrespect for the deer - which have become pawns in a money-making scheme - is intolerable to me. Competing for deer kills - to me - seems like a pursuit of "hunting manhood" to show off to others.

I agree with Jack on the competition thing.

 

[Chainsaw]

I can remember the day when a tree stand was thought to be really
really dumb. I thought too without a stand this year for safety reasons,it was a very tough.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I have to post this - years ago the Wensel brothers, Gene and Barry - said that commercializing hunting and "pay-to-hunt" trends would ruin hunting. It seems they were right. These "pay big money to hunt private properties" have become a disease. I don't watch the outdoor channel anymore because of all the BS "monsters" and the competition of "teams" to rack up as many big bucks as possible. The disrespect for the deer - which have become pawns in a money-making scheme - is intolerable to me. Competing for deer kills - to me - seems like a pursuit of "hunting manhood" to show off to others.

I agree with Jack on the competition thing.

Agree Bows. How about this for a competition....take all these hunting "celebrities" up to the Maine Northwoods and give them a peeped Remington 7600, a length of rope, and a sandwich and see which one comes back dragging a 200+ lb. buck. It would probably be a very boring show.

 

[chummer]

I have to post this - years ago the Wensel brothers, Gene and Barry - said that commercializing hunting and "pay-to-hunt" trends would ruin hunting. It seems they were right. These "pay big money to hunt private properties" have become a disease. I don't watch the outdoor channel anymore because of all the BS "monsters" and the competition of "teams" to rack up as many big bucks as possible. The disrespect for the deer - which have become pawns in a money-making scheme - is intolerable to me. Competing for deer kills - to me - seems like a pursuit of "hunting manhood" to show off to others.

I agree with Jack on the competition thing.

Agree Bows. How about this for a competition....take all these hunting "celebrities" up to the Maine Northwoods and give them a peeped Remington 7600, a length of rope, and a sandwich and see which one comes back dragging a 200+ lb. buck. It would probably be a very boring show.

I would actually watch that.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Agree Bows. How about this for a competition....take all these hunting "celebrities" up to the Maine Northwoods and give them a peeped Remington 7600, a length of rope, and a sandwich and see which one comes back dragging a 200+ lb. buck. It would probably be a very boring show.

I think we could then hear Larry Benoit laughing from "the other side." It's NOT drive-up hunting in Maine!!!!

As Chummer said above - I'd watch THAT show ........... just to see the frustration on the "famous" hunters' faces.

 

[Telemark]

I've thought a bit about this thread, and my conclusion is that "it depends".

There is such a huge variety of products out there that it's too hard to generalize. I think various products generally have some value, but their effectiveness depends on many factors, such as location, season, weather, method used, product's inherent usefulness, individual deer personality, etc. Hunters need to learn how/when/where to use any given product in order to benefit from its potential.

 

[yoderjac]

Speaking of famous hunters and TV shows, years ago when I was a conservation volunteer and hunting at Quantico MCB, the Primos crew came down to film a hunt. The base closed down one of the best training areas on the base for the crew for a week or two. They also gave them the roost site map for that area and one of the best turkey hunting conservation volunteers as a guide. They hunted every day and never killed a bird. Years later the guide told me they did call in one gobbler, but it did not strut long enough to get "good footage" so they did not shoot it. That frustrated him.

The week after they left, the base opened that training area up to regular base hunters. Several birds were killed that week.

To be fair, I have had a few spring gobbler hunts that look like the ones you see on TV, but it is a very small percentage of my hunts. I have killed many, many, gobblers over the years. Birds on base are pressured. Calling to a bird in view while it struts is an anomaly. Every now and then, you get a 2-year old that wants to run you over, but more often than not, gobblers sneak in.

TV shows are very idealized versions of what I've experienced in the field. I've killed many gobblers that never even gobbled once!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[PatinPA]

I would actually watch that.

Have you ever watched The Hunting Public on youtube? It's a group of guys that started out as interns for Midwest Whitetail with Wienke. They started a public land section under that show then started their own show. They've since started a public land challenge that they invite people like Dan Infalt and others to. They'll just pick a state that most aren't familiar with and go hunt there for a week and see how they do. They came to PA, two years ago. I'll have to say I was impressed with the buck they got and saw in a week of hunting without knowing anything about it other than looking at maps.

 

[greekfreak]

I have to post this - years ago the Wensel brothers, Gene and Barry - said that commercializing hunting and "pay-to-hunt" trends would ruin hunting. It seems they were right. These "pay big money to hunt private properties" have become a disease. I don't watch the outdoor channel anymore because of all the BS "monsters" and the competition of "teams" to rack up as many big bucks as possible. The disrespect for the deer - which have become pawns in a money-making scheme - is intolerable to me. Competing for deer kills - to me - seems like a pursuit of "hunting manhood" to show off to others.

I agree with Jack on the competition thing.

Not to mention the high fence deer pawn offs. If you research into some of these guys when they post pictures someone will tag the ranch and it instantly blows my mind when I find out it is high fenced. But they will not say that on T.V.

 

[Mortenson]

It's super sexy to be "the hunting public" these days. Get some cameras, some public and a youtube channel and you're off to the races. My kids found a video last night by a recurve bowhunter who only hunts on the ground in public. He was showcasing his racks then finished with a giant 195" typical he shot a few years ago in KS on film. Ended up shooting it in the kneecap and took 4 or 5 days to recover it. Guess that's something to be proud of? Also heard him say something about preferring head on shots with traditional equipment because that's how lions hunt. Alrighty then.

 

[bwoods11]

I have to post this - years ago the Wensel brothers, Gene and Barry - said that commercializing hunting and "pay-to-hunt" trends would ruin hunting. It seems they were right. These "pay big money to hunt private properties" have become a disease. I don't watch the outdoor channel anymore because of all the BS "monsters" and the competition of "teams" to rack up as many big bucks as possible. The disrespect for the deer - which have become pawns in a money-making scheme - is intolerable to me. Competing for deer kills - to me - seems like a pursuit of "hunting manhood" to show off to others.

I agree with Jack on the competition thing.

It will only ruin hunting if you let it. I hunt on my land and don’t worry about it. Nothing changes unless you let it get to you.

What direct impact does it have on you? I don’t have the Outdoor Channel anymore. When I did, I used a remote control to turn the channel if it wasn’t a good hunting show.

 

[yoderjac]

It will only ruin hunting if you let it. I hunt on my land and don’t worry about it. Nothing changes unless you let it get to you.

What direct impact does it have on you? I don’t have the Outdoor Channel anymore. When I did, I used a remote control to turn the channel if it wasn’t a good hunting show.

It has an impact an all of us. Keep in mind that laws, even game laws, are ultimately determined by people that vote. As hunting shows become more extreme with things like competition and hunting behind high fences as such, we lose support from the general non-hunting population. At the same time, hunter numbers are declining thorough attrition exceeding recruitment. While the folks supporting PETA type groups is still small, it is growing. Groups like this are hiding behind cruelty to pets for fund raising. We are seeing more and more late night solos as background with pictures of starving pets. We see this leaning growing mostly in urban areas. Add to this demographic changes where urban centers dominating state-wide elections in many states. None of this bodes well for our sport in the future.

From the other side, we are being attached by CWD. Managers and still struggling to find a good science based management plan. In some places they are decimating the populations which may or may not help. Fears of CWD jumping the species barrier to a CJD like disease in humans, certainly don't help with recruitment. Outreach to non-traditional groups from the hunting community is helping recruitment to some degree, but not enough to turn the tide.

If current trends continue, we may not see big impacts in my lifetime, but if you have kids and you are planning on passing on the tradition, they are likely to see some significant limitation, even on private land.

The Ostridge approach is not likely to help much.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

What Ostridge approach are you talking about ? Are you saying “you are right” and I am wrong . Same shit you always think. Man you are annoying.

No one thing will change the hunting laws. It will be a combination of all the things I listed and more, over time. I'm not saying you are wrong. In fact, I'm saying you are right...for today. I'm saying that in the long run, the entire hunting community will be impacted by the confluence of events.

Look at the change is laws in general on social issues over the last few decades. Some I see as good, and others I see as bad. The laws impacted by these larger social issues are largely a result of the demographic shift. As the trends I described continue, over time, we will see things build and then hit a tipping point like the other social issues.

Much of this, we can not control, but how we act as a hunting community does have an impact on the general public. The more visible the actions, the more potential impact they have.

 

[bwoods11]

You won’t stop social media I guarantee it. You see hunting/fishing on Facebook, Tik Tok, YouTube. Not all positive,,but some of it helps.

Think of how many more women hunters there are now after Lee/Tiffany on the Outdoor Channel & on Social Media ?

Archery is growing in schools and with young adults . It’s not all doomsday. It would be worse if nobody showed their hunts, or shared their catch of the day.

 

[yoderjac]

You won’t stop social media I guarantee it. You see hunting/fishing on Facebook, Tik Tok, YouTube. Not all positive,,but some of it helps.

Think of how many more women hunters there are now after Lee/Tiffany on the Outdoor Channel & on Social Media ?

Archery is growing in schools and with young adults . It’s not all doomsday. It would be worse if nobody showed their hunts, or shared their catch of the day.

I don't disagree with any of that. Media in any form is just a communications channel. It can be used in both positive and negative ways. There are many things that have really helped with recruitment. I completely agree.

My only point was that it does matter in the long run what we do as a community. Even if we do everything in our power as a community, we still may not be able to turn the tide. I've been recruiting in the metro suburbs. I teach hunter ed, but most with interest in the suburbs have no heritage and no bridge between intro hunter ed, and field experience. I've taken kids out as well as adults who have an interest. The "eat local" crowd is now a draw for some as well as the "I want to know where my food comes from". After the basic class I get them to shoot a deer and guide them through the total process of butchering it. I have many friends who don't hunt and all and have have spoken ignorantly and derogatorily toward hunting. Rather then engaging them directly, we just invite them over for dinner. When they complement my wife on the dinner and ask where we got the meat, she casually tells them it was venison that I shot. About 80% of these folks eventually ask my wife when I'm gong hunting again and get on her venison list. They will never hunt, but they will never vote for folks who want to pass anti-hunting laws.

Your point about role models for girls is spot on! One of the things I have found very effective here, where peer pressure in schools is very anti-hunting, is to take two girls out that don't know each other but are about the same age. They are very afraid to let anyone in their peer group know they have hunted. Even something as simple as having one girlfriend that hunts is huge in keeping them engaged in hunting until it sticks.

We, as mentors, also have to remember that hunting is not for everyone. My goal is to expose a kid to hunting and let them make their own decisions, including whether they want to shoot or not. I never tell a kid to shoot and I always let them know it is their decision. Hunting will click with some and not with others, but again, the others will be less likely to be anti-hunting as they end up less ignorant of it.

In my state, we have an "Archery in the Schools" program that has helped indirectly. I is divorced completely from hunting to get into schools. It is simply target archery, but once a kid develops archery skills, it opens the possibility of hunting. In the suburbs, firearm hunting is very limited if permitted at all. With city traffic, driving to a location where they can firearm hunt is quite time expensive. Many suburban parks are now open to controlled bowhunting to help with deer/human conflict in the burbs.

Thanks,

Jack