Input shortages

[Foggy47]

Many years ago....I worked for a testing Laboratory that did allot of soil testing in addition to many other types of testing. Anyway.....I know the value of testing....yet get a little too "tight" to do testing on too many plots and with too much frequency. The past two seasons....I have just gone with my gut on fertilizers and some pell lime applications on some new plots.

The "gut feelings" can get you by for a bit.....but at some point your just guessing and better get a few new soil tests done to get back to reality.

 

[FarmerDan]

Many years ago....I worked for a testing Laboratory that did allot of soil testing in addition to many other types of testing. Anyway.....I know the value of testing....yet get a little too "tight" to do testing on too many plots and with too much frequency. The past two seasons....I have just gone with my gut on fertilizers and some pell lime applications on some new plots.

The "gut feelings" can get you by for a bit.....but at some point your just guessing and better get a few new soil tests done to get back to reality.

Foggy, I gotta tell you I think you can get by on your gut feelings for a long time. I know soil testing is almost a Holy Grail but I've come to believe it to be inadequate for some purposes (think production ag) and needed less frequently, if at all, for most food plotters - if you know your soils and their origins. It never changes so you only need to find out once and develop one plan forever. I'll save the rest of the story for later.

Moving on.....
Let me ask anyone listening, in light of high input prices, travel to-and-from aside, what are you going to do? I know many of you have developed "alternative" systems where you believe purchasing inputs is unnecessary and I say good for you. But, if you've been using chemical herbicides and synthetic fertilizers while buying and applying lime religiously, what are your going to do -now?

 

[Bassattackr]

Dan - I dont use chemical herbicides so it doesn’t affect me there. But otherwise.. no changes for me. The price of a bag of 6-28-28 going from $17 to $23 (currently) doesn’t affect any decisions for me. Yes it’s quite a bit higher percentage wise, but for foodplotting scale.. Keep buying and dump out there to get the results needed! Just my $.02.

Now the farmers in my area are having a tougher time, no doubt.

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy, I gotta tell you I think you can get by on your gut feelings for a long time. I know soil testing is almost a Holy Grail but I've come to believe it to be inadequate for some purposes (think production ag) and needed less frequently, if at all, for most food plotters - if you know your soils and their origins. It never changes so you only need to find out once and develop one plan forever. I'll save the rest of the story for later.

Moving on.....
Let me ask anyone listening, in light of high input prices, travel to-and-from aside, what are you going to do? I know many of you have developed "alternative" systems where you believe purchasing inputs is unnecessary and I say good for you. But, if you've been using chemical herbicides and synthetic fertilizers while buying and applying lime religiously, what are your going to do -now?

^ Yep.....this will be some interesting times. I think the rubber has met the road now....with shortages and high prices. Folks definitely need to make a plan on how to proceed through times like we are now experiencing. I'm glad I chose to buy a NT drill and change my ways. Hoping to stop tillage and work on the regenereative ag methods and keep roots in the ground from now on.

I have accumulated the tools to do this and I have spent lots of hours reading and viewing video on the "how to" of regenerative ag. Wish I had begun sooner. No more row crops or bare ground for me......hopefully.

 

[SwampCat]

Deer are really pretty easy. I plant wheat and durana. I have tried to plant about any food plot seed I can find. It doesnt really make any difference. In my area, Deer will use the wheat as well as any other food plot mix ever devised. I plant wheat into my clover each fall. I dont use fertilizer.

Ducks and doves are several steps above deer when it comes to managing. You have to find something to plant that deer wont eat. You need fertilizer to produce the maximum amount of seed. Doves prefer clean ground - which means gly. Duck plantings require a reduction of competition - usually smartweed - more gly. Duck plantings need a maximum seed production - fertilizer. Duck holes need water - diesel for pumps. Sometimes water has to be pumped down to plant - more diesel.

If I only planted for deer, I wouldnt worry about it.

 

[SD51555]

Foggy, I gotta tell you I think you can get by on your gut feelings for a long time. I know soil testing is almost a Holy Grail but I've come to believe it to be inadequate for some purposes (think production ag) and needed less frequently, if at all, for most food plotters - if you know your soils and their origins. It never changes so you only need to find out once and develop one plan forever. I'll save the rest of the story for later.

Moving on.....
Let me ask anyone listening, in light of high input prices, travel to-and-from aside, what are you going to do? I know many of you have developed "alternative" systems where you believe purchasing inputs is unnecessary and I say good for you. But, if you've been using chemical herbicides and synthetic fertilizers while buying and applying lime religiously, what are your going to do -now?

I don't think soil pH is as important as we think (except you guys south of 5 downwind of the rust belt). We assign blame to pH because that's what we've always done and it's easy to illustrate that it isn't perfect via soil test.

There are plenty of other reasons for plots to not do well when managed with modern best practices. That could be fallow, lack of oxygen, excess oxygen, surface soil temps, too much water, not enough water, no mycorhizal fungi, imbalanced C:N ratio, herbicides, seed coatings, erosion, too much residue, not enough residue, etc. All of those are crisis of human intervention and preventable. I have used lime to knock out some pH specific weeds though, so don't think I'm anti-lime. There's just more to it.

What am I going to do differently this year? Maybe cut back my gypsum rate, integrate human food into my plots, building more perma-garden beds, and I'm tinkering with one other thing I can't share because I'm already having sourcing problems and don't need you characters googling for it too.

I've been researching for years how to get rid of as many interventions as possible. I started a thread last year asking what people would do if they couldn't get fertilizer. I think a couple of other threads also came up around that time as well. I remember one guy on here got to scoffing and puffing, calling it doom porn. Yet here we are.

Anyway, everyone better get curious about how to grow things without Russian and Chinese inputs. Ain't saying they're gonna get cut off for good, but I wouldn't bet my life on them always being available either.

 

[Diesel5610]

We were planning on moving toward regenerative agriculture, pretty ironic that current circumstances are going to push us in that direction whether we like it or not. Just finished frost seeding 6 acres to clover yesterday. Not having much of a choice will make some of the transition easier.

 

[yoderjac]

^ Yep.....this will be some interesting times. I think the rubber has met the road now....with shortages and high prices. Folks definitely need to make a plan on how to proceed through times like we are now experiencing. I'm glad I chose to buy a NT drill and change my ways. Hoping to stop tillage and work on the regenereative ag methods and keep roots in the ground from now on.

I have accumulated the tools to do this and I have spent lots of hours reading and viewing video on the "how to" of regenerative ag. Wish I had begun sooner. No more row crops or bare ground for me......hopefully.

Since I've minimized tillage and started building OM with crop rotations, I've completely stopped using commercial fertilizer. I've seen no negative impacts on my plots or hoe deer use them and I've saved thousands making more money available for other habitat projects. I have pretty heavy clay soil. Lime moves pretty slowly through my soil, so it is years before maintenance lime really matters. My last soil tests were in 2017 when lime was applied accordingly. I figured it was time to test for maintenance lime. Funny how back when I was tilling and fertilizing the soil tests often showed some of my nutrients low to very low and fertilizer recommendations were quite high. Even those I was only really concerned it pH and OM, VT always makes fertilizer recommendations. This time they were all minimal for all 3 fields, regardless of the varying pH measured.

Min or no-till techniques with weed tolerance (except when a specific noxious weed becomes problematic), saves both significant time and money. From a QDM standpoint, sufficient acreage planted at lower intensity (yield) with more weeds and variety benefits deer just as much at a much lower cost. I find timber management and even more important and impactful tool as food plots for QDM. A well thought out timber management plan can produce higher volumes of quality native foods and generate positive cash flow at the same time. In most of the country, nature is cyclic and there are periods (stress periods) when quality native foods diminish. A well designed food plot program complements this by providing that high quality food at those times when nature is stingy.

It has taken many years to reverse the damage I caused in my early years with a 2-bottom plow and a tiller running at full depth creating beautiful fluffy seed beds that were perfectly level with high inputs and high herbicide use producing clean plots fit for a magazine cover. My plow now sits and rusts like a lawn ornament. I'd like to be rid if it, but I'd have a hard time selling it in good conscience...

We have also added permaculture to our program with low maintenance mast producing trees. Many of these will not see their full potential in my lifetime, but they will benefit wildlife long after our plots have reverted back to succession.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[SD51555]

We were planning on moving toward regenerative agriculture, pretty ironic that current circumstances are going to push us in that direction whether we like it or not. Just finished frost seeding 6 acres to clover yesterday. Not having much of a choice will make some of the transition easier.

If u think about it, we’re still growing on WW2 practices. We haven’t really changed methods. It’s still a put and take system on the frame of heavy chemical and physical intervention. We’ve definitely found bigger and more efficient ways to do it, but we haven’t changed philosophy in 75 years.

Kinda interesting, WW3 will likely replace the WW2 system. It’s time for some hard questions anyway.

Are corn, beans, and tech wheat the right crops and best use of the land?
Is confinement the right model for meat?
Can fat body America survive another 50 years of the standard American diet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Foggy47]

If u think about it, we’re still growing on WW2 practices. We haven’t really changed methods. It’s still a put and take system on the frame of heavy chemical and physical intervention. We’ve definitely found bigger and more efficient ways to do it, but we haven’t changed philosophy in 75 years.

Kinda interesting, WW3 will likely replace the WW2 system. It’s time for some hard questions anyway.

Are corn, beans, and tech wheat the right crops and best use of the land?
Is confinement the right model for meat?
Can fat body America survive another 50 years of the standard American diet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

^. Yep, could be a turning point for AG.....and maybe for energy too? More questions....

Is solar worth pursuing......and can I weld or run refrigeration and A/C on it?
Can an electric tractor pull a no till drill?
Grin. ;).

 

[FarmerDan]

^. Yep, could be a turning point for AG.....and maybe for energy too?.

Ummm....no. We've been turning the point for 40-years - and we are still turning. When I drive thru the midwest I'm always amazed at the amount of tillage still happening. We've made great strides, but there's still a lot of ground to cover. I think it takes a couple generations - and (don't shot me, I'm just the messenger) liberal subsidies.

Man did not rise to the top of the food chain......in order to eat salad. But, Don't forget the chicory.

 

[SD51555]

^. Yep, could be a turning point for AG.....and maybe for energy too? More questions....

Is solar worth pursuing......and can I weld or run refrigeration and A/C on it?
Can an electric tractor pull a no till drill?
Grin. ;).

You just wait. You keep going down that road of discovery in regen growing, and you will sell all your drills and crimpers and be fabbing up a mount to put your spreader on your front end loader.

You’ll be done with your ten acres faster than you can get the drill out, greased, and calibrated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Diesel5610]

I do indeed believe we are at a turning point, not just AG and energy but society in general. We are a long, long way from solar, wind and electric ever being our primary energy source. The infrastructure to support it will take decades to build. These morons have destabilized the entire world by trying to move too fast toward that end. Evidently no one had the brains to see the geopolitical ramifications of their unrealistic energy policies.

I have long been a firm believer that the standard American diet is the root of most of our disease and ill health in this country.

Interesting and scary times for sure.

 

[Foggy47]

You just wait. You keep going down that road of discovery in regen growing, and you will sell all your drills and crimpers and be fabbing up a mount to put your spreader on your front end loader.

You’ll be done with your ten acres faster than you can get the drill out, greased, and calibrated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats not a bad idea.....putting that Herd GT77 on the loader of my tractor. Hmmm....could drive and spin cover crops, brassica and clover into standing tall crops. Just put it on a QD / 3 Point mount and run some wires to the auxiliary plug. Sweet. Could do fertilizer that way too. Keep thinking SD. (Believe me....at my age I need all the easy methods possible to do these things)

EDIT: In reality I have never had much success with simply broadcasting onto the top of my sand. Just has never worked for me....even with a decent rainfall. Therefore my drill. I suppose I could do something like said above and have the cultipacker or a crimper to follow on the three point tho...... I've tried dumber things.....gin.

 

[yoderjac]

^. Yep, could be a turning point for AG.....and maybe for energy too? More questions....

Is solar worth pursuing......and can I weld or run refrigeration and A/C on it?
Can an electric tractor pull a no till drill?
Grin. ;).

Just plug it into the wind turbine in the "Alternate Land Use" case and you can pull your drill as far as the extension cord will reach..

Seriously, it doesn't matter if the power source is nuclear, hydro, solar, wind or whatever. Power is power. It is simply having enough for the task. For available HP, the only difference between electric and internal combustion is the weight of the power source. It is the comparable energy density of a tank of diesel compared to a battery.

 

[Foggy47]

Seems like a good place to dump this information. Maybe we will get a few more "converts". Grin.

 

[Bassattackr]

Ummm....no. We've been turning the point for 40-years - and we are still turning. When I drive thru the midwest I'm always amazed at the amount of tillage still happening. We've made great strides, but there's still a lot of ground to cover. I think it takes a couple generations - and (don't shot me, I'm just the messenger) liberal subsidies.

Man did not rise to the top of the food chain......in order to eat salad. But, Don't forget the chicory.

Yep. Beyond a few university studies, organic/hobby farmers and trial food plotters - Regenerative ag is essentially non existent.

 

[Mortenson]

Shows Potash being the largest import for the US. But 83% of that comes from Canada.

 

[Bassattackr]

Shows Potash being the largest import for the US. But 83% of that comes from Canada.

View attachment 41859

Makes sense. Most crops don't need a lot of P. Most traditional crops in the US have higher requirements of N, K..

N is made in a lot of forms. A lot of high N crops like corn for example - Many use manure or NH3 (Anhydrous Ammonia) as their N source which don't require heavy processing.

 

[bigboreblr]

Yep. Beyond a few university studies, organic/hobby farmers and trial food plotters - Regenerative ag is essentially non existent.

We as in the US is getting there. Much more farmers are cover cropping their kaun n beenz crop. MY brother in law has a dairy farm of 600 head, has maybe 2000 acres of his own land, and either leases or is contracted to plant n harvest another 2500 acres. Through most of NY and parts of CT. He does cover crops where it's feasible near his farm. Farther out places where harvesting cover crops isn't productive, he doesn't. He spreads rye in beans before he harvest. He has hired aircraft to spread. Not quite regenerative, but he also digest the manure in a pond before spreading it.

I am pretty surprised he doesnt have a manure injector. He usually boradcasts.

Alot of farmers are getting smart about chopping stalks, spreading the harvester discharge, doing cover crops other than just rye, and no tilling too. micronutrients too.

Pretty sure he no tills from beans to corn. Then usually does 2 years of corn in a row. Between the two years, he corrects the soil with lime and some fertilizer when he discs. This is the 450 acres I hunt.

There is more and more interest in organic markets, like grains.

Organic doesn't always mean what you think it does though. Spreading liquid nicotine is acceptable treatments in some states......