I tried TnM and the results were just so-so

[Crimson n' Camo]

The most important thing about all of this is to understand the principles of soil health….and to have the ability to look at any given field and adapt your method of planting to fit THAT field in it’s current condition…. while still improving the situation long term. Sometimes its as simple as broadcast seed and mow…..other times its not. That doesn’t mean that good soil health practices have to be abandoned though….it just means they need to be tweaked. We still have the same long term goals we're trying to work toward. Are you moving forward or backwards?

 

[Someday isle]

I thought I’d share these photos. I had an equipment breakdown while planting my plots so some were done conventional and others I had to improvise. I have four food plot trails that are about an 1/8 of an acre each. One is ladino clover that I jutst overseeded with rye, oats and a little more clover. I then have three plots in wooded areas that have been cleared. One is 1/3 of an acre and the other two are 1/4 acre. Two of the trails were disced, seeded with oats, rye and peas all at about #50 per acre. So was one of the 1/4 acre plots. They were then cultipacked and medium red clover spread at #12 per acre. Plots weee planted on Monday. We got about 2 inches of rain on Wednesday. Today (Saturday) they look like this.

 

[Someday isle]

After my equipment breakdown I was forced to just spread the seed on the other areas. Interestingly the clover has really germinated on the 1/3 acre plot. And the rye and oats weren’t real noticeable yet today. It was basically bare ground with a little bit of buckwheat trying to grow. In the final 1/4 acre plot I had a lot of weeds that were sprayed a little over a week before seeding. I just spread my seed into the dying weeds. I could see some clover germinating today but this picture told an interesting story. The rye, oats and peas were just laying on the ground. We had plenty of rain and the ground is still wet. These are oat seeds that have started to germinate. They’re obviously a little behind the disced ground with the cultipacked seeds but you can see that they’re doing their thing. Hopefully the moisture still in the soil is enough to keep them going and the temperatures work out right for the roots to take hold. I’m hopeful. It’s nice to be able to see nature do it’s work though. To me it also highlights the importance of timing when you can work it out but it also shows that we really can’t control some of the variables. You can see the sprout and the roots of these seeds that are just laying on the ground.

 

[Someday isle]

I don’t have enough knowledge or experience to make any meaningful observations from this, and it’s such a tiny sample - just thought I’d share the pictures since there’s some conventional and some kind of throw n mow or maybe just spray and pray. In my case I just did what I was able to do with the time and resources available at the time. I doubt the deer will care but I’m trying to learn.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

You need a lot more thatch than that for a T&M planting of cereal grains....You don't want to see bare ground or your seed. The thatch is what keeps it from drying out.

 

[SwampCat]

For me, it also depends on what my end goal might be. In my opininion, planting for deer is the easiest of all. I can plant Labor Day weekend with a variety of cool season seeds - and as long as something is green come the first week of Nov, it was a success. Doves and ducks is a whole different story. If dove season opens Sep first and you are planting browntop millet that takes 60 days to mature - under good conditions - I plant the last ten days of May. I want that millet to mature no later than the first week of August. That way, I can strip cut a little every week the last three weeks before dove season to give it time to attract doves. If the planting method I chose, because of slow germination, means it doesnt mature until the last week of August - my opening weekend dove season is a bust. If I plant early to ensure plenty of time for germination and conditions are good at the time of planting and it matures mid july - every non-target bird in the county will feast for six weeks - exhausting the food supply. Plantings for waterfowl are even trickier - in my opinion. Long term soil improvement is great - but it is not worth risking an entire duck season on my place because of no food being present. To be honest, if I didnt plant a seed, I would still have a fair number of deer. If my dove or duck plantings fail - I may not kill a single duck or dove.

 

[eclipseman]

UPDATE: So I went out to the food plot yesterday and the TnM is a bit better than I thought. It appears there was some late germinators. So instead of only 30% of the brassica growing id say it is more like 60-70%. Still not as nice as the other "monoculture, normal tilled/planted" portion but it is nice knowing that it worked better than I thought. I think I will continue using TnM techniques mixed in with alternating portions of the plot as a full tillage portion until I feel satisfied TnM is working for me.

 

[Barndog56]

Moisture is king with throw and mow plots. Any failure I've had with my plots was either due to lack of rain after broadcast, or a lack of thatch covering the seeds. I have sandy soil which can dry out quickly without thatch covering it. For this reason I try and stick with small seeds that can still germinate without much moisture or thatch. Clover, alfalfa, turnips, and rye almost always work for me, while things like radishes and peas are more hit and miss. Beans and corn have not worked at all in the couple times I've tried them.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

UPDATE: So I went out to the food plot yesterday and the TnM is a bit better than I thought. It appears there was some late germinators. So instead of only 30% of the brassica growing id say it is more like 60-70%. Still not as nice as the other "monoculture, normal tilled/planted" portion but it is nice knowing that it worked better than I thought. I think I will continue using TnM techniques mixed in with alternating portions of the plot as a full tillage portion until I feel satisfied TnM is working for me.

Don’t take this the wrong way but what you did was just top sowing seed…..not a T&M mow planting. You shouldn’t be casting any judgement on T&M techniques yet because that’s not really what you’re doing….you’re just top sowing seed. This is where folks are going wrong by trying to compare one time plantings.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

This is what you want a T&M planting to look like……..Notice that you don’t see any bare ground or my seed.

 

[SwampCat]

Moisture is king with throw and mow plots. Any failure I've had with my plots was either due to lack of rain after broadcast, or a lack of thatch covering the seeds. I have sandy soil which can dry out quickly without thatch covering it. For this reason I try and stick with small seeds that can still germinate without much moisture or thatch. Clover, alfalfa, turnips, and rye almost always work for me, while things like radishes and peas are more hit and miss. Beans and corn have not worked at all in the couple times I've tried them.

I agree - moisture is key. I plant about 40 acres spring and 40 acres in the fall - in a dozen or so plots. I am un-able to rush out and plant all my food plots when there is a rain in the forecast. That is why, so far, I have confined my tnm plantngs to a few smaller plots that arent going to ruin my plans if they dont make. As I gain experience - I may employ the technque more often.

My ideal planting is using my woods seeder for planting wheat in already established durana clover. I only scratch the dirt an inch or two deep and only strips about three or four inches wide - so I am getting a lot of the same benefits of the tnm. Now, every other year or so, most of the plots flood, killing my clover, and I have to start all over again.

 

[roymunson]

This is what you want a T&M planting to look like……..Notice that you don’t see any bare ground or my seed.

In no way did mine look that good for thatch. I know before I'd committed to T&M I'd mowed it about 2 weeks before I sprayed it. So there wasn't much standing thatch to mow. I was lucky enough to hit good rain and we'd cultipacked it. I'm pleased with my growth thus far, but truth be told, I'm getting excellent growth out of the brassica mix I broadcasted into my standing corn without any kind of mowing or packing.

Just broadcasted:


3 weeks of growth w/ almost no thatch but some timely rain

 

[TreeDaddy]

The TnM philosophy requires "buy in",patience, and persistence

Reserve judgement for 2-3 years

You won't be disappointed

bill

 

[SwampCat]

The TnM philosophy requires "buy in",patience, and persistence

Reserve judgement for 2-3 years

You won't be disappointed

bill

I dont doubt that is the truth. However, if I had one foodplot on my place, I wouldnt want to put up with half a food plot for three years. I have enough foodplots that I can sacrifice one here or there and wait. But I am also finding that if your plot floods in the spring, you are starting anew after every flood.