I’ll leave this here…glyphosate

[b116757]

I’m not hugging any trees here but this is both immensely impressive to watch and disheartening at the same time.

 

[letemgrow]

All that’s really out there is a Casey’s, pizza ranch, and grocery store, unless they’re growing their own.


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If Casey's BBQ beef pizza kills me, I'm okay with that.

 

[bigboreblr]

B116,

Saw that anchor chain at work a few years ago in a delaware water gap area on federal land in NJ. Think they were converting forestland in habitat management.

Think economics will change in the near future far as farming goes. You dollar will be spent more and more on expensive energy. and the trickle down effect on it. Not everyone, but more folks will have backyard gardens to offset food and other costs. People will be doing more with less, and using more free time towards saving $$$. Look how well the car parts business has been in the past few years..... Just see the standard of living going down.

Atleast winter crops are making a comeback here in NY. Not sure if federal $$$ is involved with interest. Went to my brother-in-laws farm sunday to zero in some guns. Was drooling over the manure injector machine. Sure would love a pass or two of that and his subsoiiler in my backyard........ Been tempted to ask his friends who farm locally to run a pass in my foodplot and future orchard sites.


Forget gly and diesel in farming. What about water in the midwest and west coast. Even in the east coast weather has been more stubborn. Real wet planting season, then a bad dry spell once you can work the fields again..... Rotting corn seedlings.....

 

[westonwhitetail]

Maybe. Maybe not. I think it doubtful. For sure we use less herbicides, fungicides, and insecticides than we did when I first started my professional career in agriculture. There are many reasons for this. In my mind the most important is our ability to improve seed performance. Some of it is because of designed genetic modification. Some of it is by natural plant breeding and selection. One thing I am amazed about is the ability or corn to flourish (may be too strong an emphasis) in drought conditions. What I lament is the privatization of seed development. A lot of the yield improvements were accomplished long ago by land grant universities and much of the research was funded with public money. So, the varieties developed were in the public domain and seed could be produced freely - without the restrictions we face today. There's real concern that yield improvements have slowed below the pace of population growth. In the end, if we are to produce enough food for an ever expanding world population cost is also a huge factor. Chemical soil amendments like lime and fertilizer and the use of herbicides and insecticides will, out of necessity, continue.

Is it better to have cheap food and expensive healthcare? The money not spent on food (and not paid to the farmer), are going in someone else's pockets, they are not saved. I'd prefer to pay $2 to a local farmer for high quality food, than pay $1 for low quality food and $1 to the healthcare system later on. I'd rather have my money go to family farms and have more farms with more people working in the agriculture industry.

This would be extremely difficult to do, because American consumer love to buy cheap shit and are fairly short sighted. They don't see the benefits in better food. They also blindly trust that anything in the grocery store is fine to eat because it was produced in a USDA inspected facility or whatever. If you have ever toured a large meat processing facility of any kind, it might change your mind.

Hopefully your right about future changes in ag as we continue to learn and develop. Specialization is what causes lots of waste and synthetic inputs. In a more balanced ag system, waste streams from some enterprises feed the others. Row crops rotate to cover crops, which are crazed by cattle, which fertilizes the fields, which can then go back to another row crop. Cows have 4 legs so they can walk to their feed in the fields and spread the manure which lets you use less fuel and you don't need buildings to house the cattle. Everything works better together, but we try to specialize at one thing which the land can't support forever.

I don't know the solution, but Gabe Brown's farm and soil are very healthy (even though he is not a great poster child for it appearance wise). Everyone could not create such a varied and abundant farm like him, thats a tall task. But maybe farmers could work together in coops that each farmer is a piece of the model, (row crops, cover crops, cattle, chickens, honey, vegetables, etc.). There are numerous models that could be developed. These coops could have their own direct to customer stores for their produces. People would have to pay more for their food but it would be healthier and they could see how its all done locally. This is a little pie in the sky dreaming and you'll never get everything you want locally, but one can imagine how it could work.

 

[FarmerDan]

Is it better to have cheap food and expensive healthcare? The money not spent on food (and not paid to the farmer), are going in someone else's pockets, they are not saved. I'd prefer to pay $2 to a local farmer for high quality food, than pay $1 for low quality food and $1 to the healthcare system later on. I'd rather have my money go to family farms and have more farms with more people working in the agriculture industry.

This would be extremely difficult to do, because American consumer love to buy cheap shit and are fairly short sighted. They don't see the benefits in better food. They also blindly trust that anything in the grocery store is fine to eat because it was produced in a USDA inspected facility or whatever. If you have ever toured a large meat processing facility of any kind, it might change your mind.

Hopefully your right about future changes in ag as we continue to learn and develop. Specialization is what causes lots of waste and synthetic inputs. In a more balanced ag system, waste streams from some enterprises feed the others. Row crops rotate to cover crops, which are crazed by cattle, which fertilizes the fields, which can then go back to another row crop. Cows have 4 legs so they can walk to their feed in the fields and spread the manure which lets you use less fuel and you don't need buildings to house the cattle. Everything works better together, but we try to specialize at one thing which the land can't support forever.

I don't know the solution, but Gabe Brown's farm and soil are very healthy (even though he is not a great poster child for it appearance wise). Everyone could not create such a varied and abundant farm like him, thats a tall task. But maybe farmers could work together in coops that each farmer is a piece of the model, (row crops, cover crops, cattle, chickens, honey, vegetables, etc.). There are numerous models that could be developed. These coops could have their own direct to customer stores for their produces. People would have to pay more for their food but it would be healthier and they could see how its all done locally. This is a little pie in the sky dreaming and you'll never get everything you want locally, but one can imagine how it could work.

Well presented sir! I know it took some thought and effort to express what you did and I appreciate it. Live you vision and share your values. The human condition seems to dictate a need for balance that remains elusive.

 

[T-Max]

Is it better to have cheap food and expensive healthcare? The money not spent on food (and not paid to the farmer), are going in someone else's pockets, they are not saved. I'd prefer to pay $2 to a local farmer for high quality food, than pay $1 for low quality food and $1 to the healthcare system later on. I'd rather have my money go to family farms and have more farms with more people working in the agriculture industry.

This would be extremely difficult to do, because American consumer love to buy cheap shit and are fairly short sighted. They don't see the benefits in better food. They also blindly trust that anything in the grocery store is fine to eat because it was produced in a USDA inspected facility or whatever. If you have ever toured a large meat processing facility of any kind, it might change your mind.

Hopefully your right about future changes in ag as we continue to learn and develop. Specialization is what causes lots of waste and synthetic inputs. In a more balanced ag system, waste streams from some enterprises feed the others. Row crops rotate to cover crops, which are crazed by cattle, which fertilizes the fields, which can then go back to another row crop. Cows have 4 legs so they can walk to their feed in the fields and spread the manure which lets you use less fuel and you don't need buildings to house the cattle. Everything works better together, but we try to specialize at one thing which the land can't support forever.

I don't know the solution, but Gabe Brown's farm and soil are very healthy (even though he is not a great poster child for it appearance wise). Everyone could not create such a varied and abundant farm like him, thats a tall task. But maybe farmers could work together in coops that each farmer is a piece of the model, (row crops, cover crops, cattle, chickens, honey, vegetables, etc.). There are numerous models that could be developed. These coops could have their own direct to customer stores for their produces. People would have to pay more for their food but it would be healthier and they could see how its all done locally. This is a little pie in the sky dreaming and you'll never get everything you want locally, but one can imagine how it could work.

I like this. A lot!


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[westonwhitetail]

Well presented sir! I know it took some thought and effort to express what you did and I appreciate it. Live you vision and share your values. The human condition seems to dictate a need for balance that remains elusive.

I am a supporter of agriculture and respect people in the industry and also enjoy the information and thoughts you share on here as well Farmer Dan. I actually wish I followed a career path in ag but did not have an "in" with a family farm or anything like that so chose another path. My grandparents farms did not make it to my generation sadly. So part of me wishes the industry changes to let the little guy have an in. I don't necessarily want to work for big ag and would rather do the farming myself but that is not viable at a small scale in this world as it is now

 

[Mortenson]

That was the whole point of the farm Skeeter linked to. It's 25 acres. Anyone here can do it. I just wondered how many actually were. Why aren't more people doing it.

 

[SD51555]

I am a supporter of agriculture and respect people in the industry and also enjoy the information and thoughts you share on here as well Farmer Dan. I actually wish I followed a career path in ag but did not have an "in" with a family farm or anything like that so chose another path. My grandparents farms did not make it to my generation sadly. So part of me wishes the industry changes to let the little guy have an in. I don't necessarily want to work for big ag and would rather do the farming myself but that is not viable at a small scale in this world as it is now

The bar is high to get land anywhere these days, that's for sure. I think to get at the dream of rural living anymore, a person that was on the bubble and has been pushed off, has to find a way to cover the cost of rural living inflation. There are lots of models out there to make good profits per acre on small parcels. The midwest seems to command $300k-$500k more to get at a 10 acre property near civilization than it did just a few years ago before the monetary nuke went off.

It'll take a little bit of work, a little bit of engineering, some business sense, and some marketing prowess. But it can be done. Heritage breed pastured pork can be a gold mine if you can master what it takes. There are people out there that pay 4x the price of science pork for clean ( No jabs, no gmo's, no concrete, no bare dirt ) pastured heritage breed pork. There are lots of other enterprises, a person just has to figure out if you can build your own market from the ground up.

I've got an idea for a thing up here, but I've got to find about 5 acres nobody wants to try it.

 

[Mortenson]

Rent it? Average cash rent this yr in WI was $151 and in MN was $198. That's for cropland. Pasture/livestock ground would be less.

 

[FarmerDan]

That was the whole point of the farm Skeeter linked to. It's 25 acres. Anyone here can do it. I just wondered how many actually were. Why aren't more people doing it.

It's like any business if you are on the outside looking in. You need capital and some land. How much land, I think, is open for debate. I can imagine systems of production on an acre or less. Of course it requires knowledge of more than just growing things. My opinion has always been one can be a good grower, produce yield...but what do yo do with it? How do you get it to the consumers who want it and will pay for it? I know there are lots of ideas but execution is bi*ch. I doubt anyone is knocking on the door of 'alternative' producers begging for product - or am I wrong?

 

[Catscratch]

I’m not hugging any trees here but this is both immensely impressive to watch and disheartening at the same time.

Oh my goodness!

 

[hunts_with_stick]

What is this heritage pork thing. I guy I know rose pigs in td, but he went out of business and had to sell everything

 

[FarmerDan]

What is this heritage pork thing. I guy I know rose pigs in td, but he went out of business and had to sell everything

Today's hogs grown in crates are breed and fed to produce lean white pork. This new consumer demanded meat replaces the genetics of the old fat hog (sow) that ate everything not eating it first, - the heritage pork!

 

[Catscratch]

What is this heritage pork thing. I guy I know rose pigs in td, but he went out of business and had to sell everything

Old genetics with a different fat content and flavor. They don't fatten up nearly as quick as meat pigs and theretofore aren't appealing to producers, but the meat is sooooo much better. I've got a friend raising them. He feeds them but also grazes them in the pastures. Moves them from paddock to paddock type of thing. His are kunekune and they don't root around much. He doesn't make money through volume, makes it by selling a better product than you can find at the store.

 

[hunts_with_stick]

interesting. I like the sound of the heritage pork much better! The problem I see, is if it is more expensive to bring to market, how can \people who are already strapped for cash afford to pay more?

 

[Catscratch]

interesting. I like the sound of the heritage pork much better! The problem I see, is if it is more expensive to bring to market, how can \people who are already strapped for cash afford to pay more?

I've know a lot of families who were strapped for cash in the last 20yrs. A lot of them (not all) buy food such as chips, candy, cheetos, etc. It may only cost a couple of dollars for a little bag of Cheese-It's but you're only getting a couple of ounces of food, and it's not great for you food. I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone of doing the same. I think most of us could eat much more healthy diets if we traded money spent on low nutrition "corn syrup" foods in a bag for things that would rot if you left them out.

 

[hunts_with_stick]

Great point

 

[FarmerDan]

I've know a lot of families who were strapped for cash in the last 20yrs. A lot of them (not all) buy food such as chips, candy, cheetos, etc. It may only cost a couple of dollars for a little bag of Cheese-It's but you're only getting a couple of ounces of food, and it's not great for you food. I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone of doing the same. I think most of us could eat much more healthy diets if we traded money spent on low nutrition "corn syrup" foods in a bag for things that would rot if you left them out.

Truth!

Also, I think the challenge is to find markets - small geographic areas within larger geographic areas - where the product fits. It doesn't always need to be a higher income place, but it usually is. Here where I live, to use zip codes as markets, there's one zip code that won't blink an eye at paying $16 for an organically grown chicken while five miles away in another zip code. a traditionally grown broiler house chicken costing $6 is too much.

 

[SD51555]

interesting. I like the sound of the heritage pork much better! The problem I see, is if it is more expensive to bring to market, how can \people who are already strapped for cash afford to pay more?

It’s not an income problem, it’s a math skills problem. Junk food costs more than premium meats and chem free produce. Start looking at prices through a cost per pound lens. Convenience store snacks run $12-$18/lb.

You can buy 100% grass fed, grass finished no-vax, no hormone, non-mRNA hamburger for $9/lb. Pasture raised non gmo fed heirloom ground pork for $9/lb.

Here’s a classic lunch I pack for myself to take to work:

$4.50 - couple 1/4 lb campfire hamburgers naked
$1.40 - 1/4 lb of pistachios (In shell)
$1.25 - apple
$1.00 - green pepper
$0.70- sliced Colby to lay on green pepper
———————
$8.85 for a poison free nutrient dense complete meal. How much is a lap around any drive thru choke and puke?


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