FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
And here I thought you were more broad minded than that! It isn't pure.....
I’ll leave this here…glyphosate
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FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
Economics is a cold-hearted bitch. Leaving food plotting to the side, people need to eat. To produce that food the major focus in my head is cost of production. Lower is better and a major way to accomplish it is to produce more yield at the same short-term cost.
Unfortunately in the short run there's no accounting for the longer term issues you rightly address. This is just an observation, an opinion. What we do - whatever it is we do - is in constant flux. I think we, at least in the more adaptable parts of the world, are close to changing the total production process. Right now I think we have the capability to farm on a square meter basis. That's a big move away from the 'big picture' methods we use now. Will soil structure be part of my imagined future? While we can do it, I think, I don't know if the economics are there yet, but I have faith we will figure it out. It won't be in my time. Maybe my grandkids will see it. A silly thought, maybe, but interesting to think about.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
I am it’s just don’t tell me your feeding the world when tens of millions of bushels goes into making candy, soda, ethanol, etc.
How much corn would we needed if it wasn’t for fast food (that is killing us). Don’t get me wrong i eat fast food a couple times a month so…
You can’t bull shit a bullshitter, just tell me it’s about the money and I’m good with it. Not buying the feeding the world talk though.
I don’t know what everyone else thinks about it but personally I feel that if other countries want corn they can grow it themselves. (If it’s actually about food) and they can grow it in their own country not on US soil that they bought
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SD51555
5 year old buck +
The last century was guided by supply side control of the food supply, and that has guarded the corn/soy/wheat fence row to fence row way of doing things. All of the lobbying was done to capture the FDA and USDA, consolidate traits and chems, and wall off the market from small producers. I am certain the demand side is what is going to bring down the 20th century yield focused farm model. One by one people are waking up and exiting the more and cheaper model as they see their health falling apart, and it will get worse before it gets better.
More are asking questions about what is being sprayed on their produce, not by farmers, but by middle men to extend shelf life, like Apeel which claims to be all organic, but is also loaded with heavy metals. More are finding out about the toxicity of grain fed meats and the sky high omega 6 numbers. Nutrient dilution is a problem too.
If you really think about it, the world is already starving. But not for lack of yield or acres, it's a lack of imagination, effort, and competition.
They've got plenty of calories to go around, but nutrients are gone, and toxicity is sky high. There will have to be a rebirth of the small farm movement if we're gonna survive this. You can't have 3/4 of the children being fat bodies with type II 'betes, autism, and a full panel of autoimmune disorders and expect the species to continue. Glyphosate is just one symptom of a much bigger issue with a production model that cannot deliver nutrition and without toxicity.
Here's a great watch on seed oils and what it does to your health. This is a big deal because seed oils are in every single thing you eat unless it is whole, and you grew it/killed it yourself. Between sugar, seed oils, and preservatives, the grocery store is already 99% bad for you in my opinion, no matter how organic it is.
More are asking questions about what is being sprayed on their produce, not by farmers, but by middle men to extend shelf life, like Apeel which claims to be all organic, but is also loaded with heavy metals. More are finding out about the toxicity of grain fed meats and the sky high omega 6 numbers. Nutrient dilution is a problem too.
If you really think about it, the world is already starving. But not for lack of yield or acres, it's a lack of imagination, effort, and competition.
They've got plenty of calories to go around, but nutrients are gone, and toxicity is sky high. There will have to be a rebirth of the small farm movement if we're gonna survive this. You can't have 3/4 of the children being fat bodies with type II 'betes, autism, and a full panel of autoimmune disorders and expect the species to continue. Glyphosate is just one symptom of a much bigger issue with a production model that cannot deliver nutrition and without toxicity.
Here's a great watch on seed oils and what it does to your health. This is a big deal because seed oils are in every single thing you eat unless it is whole, and you grew it/killed it yourself. Between sugar, seed oils, and preservatives, the grocery store is already 99% bad for you in my opinion, no matter how organic it is.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
. Nice oneLooks like nutrient dense to me....
SD51555
5 year old buck +
I was thinking about that even before you posted it as I was cleaning the garage. People way out where the corn is grown are some pretty big boys. All that’s really out there is a Casey’s, pizza ranch, and grocery store, unless they’re growing their own.
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I agree, the economics are a bitch.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
I'll certainly check it out, thanks. On first glance just skipping through the video, looks like maybe a great way to eat super healthy and die really young and painfully from all the backbreaking work!
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
I watched the video again this morning. It's interesting, no doubt about that. It would definitely be a tremendous amount of work. Has anyone ever said how many employees he has on his 25 acre farm? I saw dozens of different faces in the video. Labor would have to be a huge expense. He mentions how much money there is to be made on the eggs and chickens especially. Makes me think that growth and automation would naturally follow, perhaps not in his case, but in many cases. Kinda just a reset of the clock, of what the world has already seen. Just makes me wonder if the profits are really there, will these micro regen farmers stay small? It's like what I've heard about Gabe Brown, that his most valuable product is himself (seminars, books). I see on the Ridgedale website that they have taken a pause from being a commercial food producer. I'm sure the guy has learned there's more to be made by educating and presenting than there is by working on your hands and knees. His farm is currently his homestead and his classroom. And that's great, more power to him.
Are there any members on this forum who are running a farm like this for a living? Lotta farm owners here. I know Baker has gotten into it.
Obviously we all know the more homegrown food we eat the better off we are. Lotta work involved in growing out that garden. Some can do it, some can't. I for one feel somewhat confident that a person can eat fairly nutritiously by shopping at walmart. Yes, avoid 99% of the crap in there. Stay around the outside aisle, and again avoid 99% of what's in the outside even.
I like learning about this stuff. I honestly don't know much about the nutrient density discussion that's been going on for a while. Do you guys really think we're killing ourselves because a grocery store apple isn't quite as nutrient dense as it used to be? My guess is no, but it's just a guess. I think the western diet, western lifestyle, twinkies and fastfood are what's killing us. I spray roundup, but I also don't eat fastfood, ever. I don't mean to pick on Gabe's and Dave Brandt's body sizes, but it's a bad look, for what they're preaching.
I'm genuinely interested in the bee situation. I see bee guys here complaining about the gly. On the other hand, I know many farmer neighbors who keep bees, near all the conventional fields, and they make so much honey they can't even give it all away. Their sprayers don't seem to have an impact. Another neighbor just put bee boxes 100 ft from my field this year. I asked if I need to alert them to anything at any time and I wasn't given any instructions at all. I was offered this a few weeks ago. I turned it down because we've already been given a lot this year. Not sure what to think.
Are there any members on this forum who are running a farm like this for a living? Lotta farm owners here. I know Baker has gotten into it.
Obviously we all know the more homegrown food we eat the better off we are. Lotta work involved in growing out that garden. Some can do it, some can't. I for one feel somewhat confident that a person can eat fairly nutritiously by shopping at walmart. Yes, avoid 99% of the crap in there. Stay around the outside aisle, and again avoid 99% of what's in the outside even.
I like learning about this stuff. I honestly don't know much about the nutrient density discussion that's been going on for a while. Do you guys really think we're killing ourselves because a grocery store apple isn't quite as nutrient dense as it used to be? My guess is no, but it's just a guess. I think the western diet, western lifestyle, twinkies and fastfood are what's killing us. I spray roundup, but I also don't eat fastfood, ever. I don't mean to pick on Gabe's and Dave Brandt's body sizes, but it's a bad look, for what they're preaching.
I'm genuinely interested in the bee situation. I see bee guys here complaining about the gly. On the other hand, I know many farmer neighbors who keep bees, near all the conventional fields, and they make so much honey they can't even give it all away. Their sprayers don't seem to have an impact. Another neighbor just put bee boxes 100 ft from my field this year. I asked if I need to alert them to anything at any time and I wasn't given any instructions at all. I was offered this a few weeks ago. I turned it down because we've already been given a lot this year. Not sure what to think.
Everyone has to come to their own conclusion on how they want to live based on what they know and/or believe. I just hope everyone will take the time to educate themselves. The number one book that I recommend to people is Nourishment by Fred Provenza. Like most any book, there are parts that people may not agree with, but you have to know how to eat the meat and spit out the bones as they say. I understand that not everybody enjoys growing their own food. For their sake I hope that they are fortunate enough to have the ability to pay one of these small, local regen guys to do it for them. I have ordered from Gabe's company before and I can tell a difference between them and what I've had from the store. Don't know how a person argues with the testing he's had done either. However, I can't afford to live off of Gabe's meat without selling my land, so that ain't happening. Wild game is my next best option. Some may scoff at wild game being called next best, but I point to glyphosate accumulating in the organs. I try to eat many of the organs from game that I harvest. I can't control what my neighbors spray on their fields and I know the game that I harvest has eaten in those fields. If I'm truly getting meat from Gabe's farm, those animals have been on those diverse pastures for several generations and are well adapted to their environment, as my animals are to theirs, but they do not consume near the amount of glyphosate and other common agriculture chemicals. My hope is that the overall standard of living in the US stays high enough to support the local regen people. It certainly costs more but I believe we can spend it on food, which I enjoy, or we can spend it on medical premiums, which I find boring.
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
I can only offer opinions and observations from being around different types of ag production and have had to debate, defend and debunk,
=== what are the right words,=== ( hmmm)-- crazy and not so crazy thinking. I did not watch the video.
1. Labor. I am surprised at the number of idealistic people who would work on a model (whatever that means) farm for next to nothing. Is it sustainable? Mechanization of a small scale production is probably much more expensive than labor. Isn't the move from labor to mechanization what got us here?
2. There are high profit margins in high value production. Cost containment is a big factor. Like everything else top notch management is essential, and, no there isn't enough "profit" to buy a farm. I have a friend who owns and runs two 10,000 sq ft hoop houses. In Pennsylvania he is in production at least 10 months out of the year. I'm a skeptic and he is even more so than me. If he is doing it, it works. I figure he grosses $200 - $400 a square foot. Being able to go vertical helps. Make of that what you will.
3. I know a guy from Hawaii, works for USDA. He said there's a producer who does nothing but grow lettuce and other greens for the high end restaurant business there. I don't remember his gross, but I remember it making my eyes go wide. There might be room for one such producer but 2?
5. I have many other illustrations. It's possible to be small, profitable, and "right" but the ability to do it is not intrinsic. Lots of people try, but they don't understand agriculture, finance, and/or marketing. One time I thought maybe I would do it, but after ample consideration I decided not to. I think there's lots of money in it but it's too much work. Ya' gotta' love it, have high ideals or be delusional about what it takes to proceed.
On the health front you may be right about eating WalMart healthy but the American people, being deluged with scary, well intended messages, have lost faith in cheap food. And there's still nothing that will beat the taste of a freshly, timely picked piece of produce. And if the probability of a heart attack is 30% for someone of my style and I am told by changing my life style I will reduce my risk of dying by haert attack is 20% that means I still have a 24% chance? Kinda' random isn't it? We can argue the point ad nauseum without resolution.
In my opinion I am going to probably die before I might because I eat food I enjoy! Live long and be miserable or the alternative. For all the medicine and handwringing over what we choose to ingest - and I know this sounds cynical - we all end up dead. Consumers (with dollars) make choices and choices they shall have as long as they have dollars.
Finally, I consider myself a scientist. For all the science we have there's a lot we don't know.
=== what are the right words,=== ( hmmm)-- crazy and not so crazy thinking. I did not watch the video.
1. Labor. I am surprised at the number of idealistic people who would work on a model (whatever that means) farm for next to nothing. Is it sustainable? Mechanization of a small scale production is probably much more expensive than labor. Isn't the move from labor to mechanization what got us here?
2. There are high profit margins in high value production. Cost containment is a big factor. Like everything else top notch management is essential, and, no there isn't enough "profit" to buy a farm. I have a friend who owns and runs two 10,000 sq ft hoop houses. In Pennsylvania he is in production at least 10 months out of the year. I'm a skeptic and he is even more so than me. If he is doing it, it works. I figure he grosses $200 - $400 a square foot. Being able to go vertical helps. Make of that what you will.
3. I know a guy from Hawaii, works for USDA. He said there's a producer who does nothing but grow lettuce and other greens for the high end restaurant business there. I don't remember his gross, but I remember it making my eyes go wide. There might be room for one such producer but 2?
5. I have many other illustrations. It's possible to be small, profitable, and "right" but the ability to do it is not intrinsic. Lots of people try, but they don't understand agriculture, finance, and/or marketing. One time I thought maybe I would do it, but after ample consideration I decided not to. I think there's lots of money in it but it's too much work. Ya' gotta' love it, have high ideals or be delusional about what it takes to proceed.
On the health front you may be right about eating WalMart healthy but the American people, being deluged with scary, well intended messages, have lost faith in cheap food. And there's still nothing that will beat the taste of a freshly, timely picked piece of produce. And if the probability of a heart attack is 30% for someone of my style and I am told by changing my life style I will reduce my risk of dying by haert attack is 20% that means I still have a 24% chance? Kinda' random isn't it? We can argue the point ad nauseum without resolution.
In my opinion I am going to probably die before I might because I eat food I enjoy! Live long and be miserable or the alternative. For all the medicine and handwringing over what we choose to ingest - and I know this sounds cynical - we all end up dead. Consumers (with dollars) make choices and choices they shall have as long as they have dollars.
Finally, I consider myself a scientist. For all the science we have there's a lot we don't know.
Foggy47
5 year old buck +
Eat'n good in the neighborhood? Gabe's next book should be on portion control? (I feel like the pot calling the kettle black...lol)
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Agreed.
I've found more than one bee hive on my property that gets sprayed multiple times a year with gly and other ag herbicides.
The bees still seem to be going extremely strong here.
b116757
5 year old buck +
Some truth to this my row crop guy and I where just looking at a winter wheat field this morning that has received no rain and is 1” - 1 1/2” tall already and he said this particular verity is doing better than the one at his house is doing under the same conditions.
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