Help with my property pleeeeaaaase

[H20fwler]

The WI and MN guys will know way more about your situation than me. That said I'll toss out a few ideas, after deciding if/where you want to clear off some trees you can look at some native grass patches for bedding/staging areas switch/blue stem/Indian grasses and some late season food plots like soybeans. Northern variety apple&pears would be good in the right locations with plenty of protection while they are young. Sounds like you need to thicken up your ground cover, opening up the canopy and planting some good shrub strips on your edges helps with that and creates good browse and food for wildlife.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I agree with bueller. I think the best thing you could do is some serious logging and TSI.

It sounds like (and looks look from your pic) your forest is fairly homogeneous older aged stand (no understory) with minimal edge habitat. What's the topography like? If it's fairly flat, yes I can see why you have a low deer density. I hunt places just like this in VT, and it's hard hunting. My own land in Mass. sounds juts like yours...but my habitat improvements and TSI have made my land the only game in town. It's amazing to see the benefits of putting in a few small rye plots.

You have a great blank slate to work with, but before you go and do any work I would research the heck out of it and read everything you can. I really enjoyed Jeff Strugis' books, and I think for your property size and what you want to do you'd enjoy his books also.

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/

 

[Ed Brodt]

Looks like a big project that will take multiple years to implement and you will spend a bit of money along the way. You might consider hiring one of the several whitetail land consultants to come in for a couple of days and give you a detailed plan with sequencing and time lines. If you look through this site and others you will see examples of people who jumped in head first and did things they now regret. Someone earlier suggested that you take time initially to examine the geography to see how it is currently being used by wildlife before making any big changes. Good advice and if you do that it can be invaluable to a whitetail land manager as he gives you advice on how to proceed.

 

[bueller]

Sweet jumpin Jehosaphat! They want $90 for that book!

$19.95 + Shipping/Handling on their website. http://www.northcountrywhitetails.com/books.html

 

[Telemark]

I agree with bueller. I think the best thing you could do is some serious logging and TSI.

It sounds like (and looks look from your pic) your forest is fairly homogeneous older aged stand (no understory) with minimal edge habitat. What's the topography like? If it's fairly flat, yes I can see why you have a low deer density. I hunt places just like this in VT, and it's hard hunting. My own land in Mass. sounds juts like yours...but my habitat improvements and TSI have made my land the only game in town. It's amazing to see the benefits of putting in a few small rye plots.

You have a great blank slate to work with, but before you go and do any work I would research the heck out of it and read everything you can. I really enjoyed Jeff Strugis' books, and I think for your property size and what you want to do you'd enjoy his books also.

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/

I will check it out for sure. I know I need TSI, but there isn't much out there for my region. Almost nothing grows when clear cut. Any and all advice is welcome.

Did you see the spots I was thinking for bedding? You think density planted conifers are a good solution?

 

[Telemark]

Looks like a big project that will take multiple years to implement and you will spend a bit of money along the way. You might consider hiring one of the several whitetail land consultants to come in for a couple of days and give you a detailed plan with sequencing and time lines. If you look through this site and others you will see examples of people who jumped in head first and did things they now regret. Someone earlier suggested that you take time initially to examine the geography to see how it is currently being used by wildlife before making any big changes. Good advice and if you do that it can be invaluable to a whitetail land manager as he gives you advice on how to proceed.

Money is the one thing I can't give much of. I wish I could hire it out, but I just can't spend thousands on the project. I can spend a few hundred per year, plus the sweat of my brow. That's why I'm here, to get advice from experienced habitat guys on how to improve my property myself.

 

[Telemark]

By the way, this is a photo of the winter deer yard about 4 miles southeast of my property:

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I think for bedding I would opt for clearings planted in tall grasses that have good south exposure. I think you would be shocked that the deer will choose to bed in the open when they have good sun exposure. With that being said I would also plant a thick stand of cedars on the north side of the grassy area to keep the wind off their backs and for additional cover.

For a food source Id look into small burnett. Grows well on low ph ground and stays green under snow cover. I believe its also very low maintenance.

 

[Telemark]

$19.95 + Shipping/Handling on their website. http://www.northcountrywhitetails.com/books.html

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Telemark]

I think for bedding I would opt for clearings planted in tall grasses that have good south exposure. I think you would be shocked that the deer will choose to bed in the open when they have good sun exposure. With that being said I would also plant a thick stand of cedars on the north side of the grassy area to keep the wind off their backs and for additional cover.

For a food source Id look into small burnett. Grows well on low ph ground and stays green under snow cover. I believe its also very low maintenance.

Great info. Thanks. Unfortunately I don't have much south-facing land. Almost all of it slopes north. But the one small south-facing slope can become bedding no problem. How big should the grass patches be?

 

[Nova]

I noticed that most of the land slopes north, which is kind of a bummer, but if you can find any south facing slopes I would for sure make that bedding then wind break the north side with pines or spruce. Bedding areas I would make several split by some kind of transition, cedars, spruce, etc. You don't need them too big as you want different doe groups using their own area, 1/8 to 1/4 acre each.

Wheat, rye and oats would grow good in your area. If you can establish oats in the spring, then throw and mow rye and clover in them late summer, you will have good food sources that fall and good clover come spring. See the throw and mow method thread here in the food plot forum to get good direction on how to do that. I would spend a couple years getting the plots established before you try planting grains. You might be too far north to try beans, but corn might work. I have notice the corn growers in Manitoba are getting further north every year. See what the ag farmers are planting in your area to determine what kind of grain you can plant.

 

[j-bird]

Another good read on habitat work and property layout is by Jeff Sturgis....the link below is to his website. His "Success by design" book series (I have all 3) could be of interest to you...specifically the one on food plots (food plot success by design) and property layout (Whitetail success by design). Steve Bartylla is also another great resource as well for plots and property layout.

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/

You mention Maple and Beech.....both are shade tolerant trees that can produce very dense canopies and stunt the understory. The Beech will provide some hard mast, but the maple is worthless to deer once it exceeds their reach. A chainsaw may become a very good friend to you. Logging produces cover, food and INCOME! As much as I feared cutting and even early on struggled with the concept of cutting trees to create cover.....it was the best thing I have done thus far. I don;t know how logging would affect your bear and grouse aspects, but i would bet it would certainly help the deer. Beech can help provide cover when they are young as they will hold their leaves well into the winter. Once the trees get large I either hinge cut them or remove them entirely n favor of better mast producing trees. You can also release and improve those oaks as well......typically sunlight and a reduction of competition will help oak grow faster and produce better as well. IF you have cedar make sure that any apples you plant are very resistant to apple rust as cedar can carry it and damage your trees and fruit and just add to frustration.

Learn the property before you get ahead of yourself and have a true plan. Not just a plan for next year, but a plan for what the place will look like in 5 or 10 years. Learning the property is the key. Bedding areas, travel routes, how the wind flows and how your place fits into the area around you are all thing you really can;t change much. Working WITH mother nature and what she gives you may not be picture perfect, but it's a lot easier. Also consider perimeter trails for access.....planning hunting access in advance and not as an after thought can make a huge difference. You find a way to hold the does, you will have a chance at holding bucks or at least give them reason to come check your place out and spend some time there.

The picture of that deer yard is pretty awesome. I'm not sure it's good for that habitat but it is what it is. All those mouths in one place....I bet the browse in that area get destroyed!

 

[Telemark]

I noticed that most of the land slopes north, which is kind of a bummer, but if you can find any south facing slopes I would for sure make that bedding then wind break the north side with pines or spruce. Bedding areas I would make several split by some kind of transition, cedars, spruce, etc. You don't need them too big as you want different doe groups using their own area, 1/8 to 1/4 acre each.

Wheat, rye and oats would grow good in your area. If you can establish oats in the spring, then throw and mow rye and clover in them late summer, you will have good food sources that fall and good clover come spring. See the throw and mow method thread here in the food plot forum to get good direction on how to do that. I would spend a couple years getting the plots established before you try planting grains. You might be too far north to try beans, but corn might work. I have notice the corn growers in Manitoba are getting further north every year. See what the ag farmers are planting in your area to determine what kind of grain you can plant.

Sounds good. How should the bedding be arranged? Strips? Checkerboard? Mostly grass with patches of conifers. Mostly conifer with patches of grass?

 

[JFK52]

I don't want to sound like "Debbie Downer" but with a budget of a few hundred dollars a year you are going to be extremely limited in any improvements you can do on this piece of land. You are willing to invest your sweat equity into the land, but other than that EVERYTHING costs $$$. As a person who has worked on my own 122 acre piece of land for the last 25+ years, I can state that it has cost me a lot of cash even though I did most of the work myself. Seed, diesel fuel, tractor parts, the cost of the L345 4x4 diesel Kubota, implements, gas to drive to and from my land, and farm supplies are just some of the expenses I had just so I could do the work myself.
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. Do what you can and think long term.

 

[Telemark]

I'll put more money into it down the road when I see returns on my efforts. This is a family property that will hopefully be with us for generations. I have access to an ATV, a disk, a chain harrow, and a couple of chainsaws. I know it is a lot of work, but this year I have more free time than money, so that's what I'm starting with.

I have a buddy who owns a big Kubota. Hopefully he will help me out down the road as I help him with his place. His place is near mine, and it also needs a lot of work.

I am definitely thinking long-term for the project. Little by little, year after year, see how it goes.

 

[Telemark]

Another good read on habitat work and property layout is by Jeff Sturgis....the link below is to his website. His "Success by design" book series (I have all 3) could be of interest to you...specifically the one on food plots (food plot success by design) and property layout (Whitetail success by design). Steve Bartylla is also another great resource as well for plots and property layout.

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/

You mention Maple and Beech.....both are shade tolerant trees that can produce very dense canopies and stunt the understory. The Beech will provide some hard mast, but the maple is worthless to deer once it exceeds their reach. A chainsaw may become a very good friend to you. Logging produces cover, food and INCOME! As much as I feared cutting and even early on struggled with the concept of cutting trees to create cover.....it was the best thing I have done thus far. I don;t know how logging would affect your bear and grouse aspects, but i would bet it would certainly help the deer. Beech can help provide cover when they are young as they will hold their leaves well into the winter. Once the trees get large I either hinge cut them or remove them entirely n favor of better mast producing trees. You can also release and improve those oaks as well......typically sunlight and a reduction of competition will help oak grow faster and produce better as well. IF you have cedar make sure that any apples you plant are very resistant to apple rust as cedar can carry it and damage your trees and fruit and just add to frustration.

Learn the property before you get ahead of yourself and have a true plan. Not just a plan for next year, but a plan for what the place will look like in 5 or 10 years. Learning the property is the key. Bedding areas, travel routes, how the wind flows and how your place fits into the area around you are all thing you really can;t change much. Working WITH mother nature and what she gives you may not be picture perfect, but it's a lot easier. Also consider perimeter trails for access.....planning hunting access in advance and not as an after thought can make a huge difference. You find a way to hold the does, you will have a chance at holding bucks or at least give them reason to come check your place out and spend some time there.

The picture of that deer yard is pretty awesome. I'm not sure it's good for that habitat but it is what it is. All those mouths in one place....I bet the browse in that area get destroyed!

Ok let me address this point by point:

I can't have it logged, but I can cut trees. I think it will help the grouse and bears too. I am planning to plant berries for them and for me.

I will hinge cut some spots around the property and see how the deer utilize them. I will also clear out some trees and plant pine/spruce. And maybe switchgrass. I will also release some of the oaks for sure.

I know the property very well. There is really not much on it. It needs a lot of work.

The deer yards are crazy on the island. I will dig out some other photos. The deer literally move into the towns and hang out in people's yards and driveways.

 

[Nova]

Sounds good. How should the bedding be arranged? Strips? Checkerboard? Mostly grass with patches of conifers. Mostly conifer with patches of grass?

I guess checkerboard would be a way to describe it, but not too close together. I like to border the north and west side with pines/spruce and then tall grasses for the rest of it.

 

[bueller]

What are your predominate winds in the fall during hunting season being on the water and all? If you haven't yet determined this, do it. You don't want to hang a stand on the edge of a newly created foodplot to find your scent from this stand constantly blowing directly into a newly created bedding area or over the foodplot itself.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I will check it out for sure. I know I need TSI, but there isn't much out there for my region. Almost nothing grows when clear cut. Any and all advice is welcome.

Did you see the spots I was thinking for bedding? You think density planted conifers are a good solution?

It's tough to make any precise recommendations without knowing your property. I think I spent 4 or 5 years walking, and hunting, and scouting, and observing before I made a single change to my land....look before you leap. I know you want to get started, but I would really recommend doing some serious reading before you dive in. 285 is a nice chunk of land, but not big enough that you're going to hold bucks solely on your property. You're just going to have to accept that. But, if you give them what they need they will definitely use your land more. You mentioned that you have a natural pinch point where those two evergreen stands come to a point. I think I'd be looking at giving them something they want on one side of that point (bedding) and something else they want on the other (food). It's a great natural ambush point given a favorable wind.

You've got a nice chunk of land with some challenges and a lot of exciting possibilities. I really do think the Sturgis books are going to resonate with you as you come up with a plan. His books will introduce you to habitat management and design concepts that you may have not ever considered before but that all make good sense. They were really helpful to me once I decided to start making changes to my land.

 

[Telemark]

What are your predominate winds in the fall during hunting season being on the water and all? If you haven't yet determined this, do it. You don't want to hang a stand on the edge of a newly created foodplot to find your scent from this stand constantly blowing directly into a newly created bedding area or over the foodplot itself.

Wind generally comes from the north. If wind comes from the south or goes calm, deer come onto the property.