Help on terminating a plot

[Bowsnbucks]

I need advice on terminating a plot without spraying something to do it.

A plot of alfalfa and red clover at camp is pretty much empty of the alfalfa now. If we want to plant brassicas following this plot, how should we terminate it ?? We have a 2-bottom plow, disks, a spring-tooth harrow, and a PTO driven mower deck that we pull behind the JD. We're not farmers with all kinds of equipment. Will we still need to spray gly or cleth anyway ?? Not worried if some red clover springs back in the brassica plot.

Any advice from you guys that farm is most welcome.

 

[Mortenson]

You could certainly turn it over with that plow, but many are unwilling to do that (in many cases rightfully so), so if it was me, I'd strongly consider burning it down then going with your planting technique. Are you more of a seedbed guy or throw n grower?

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I would think if the plot is thinning you could do a spring planting of broadcast cereal and just throw and mow it late summer. Brassicas are pretty good at competing.

 

[Barndog56]

If the alfalfa is thinning and you don't care if the red clover comes back, what exactly are you trying to terminate?

I don't terminate anything. I throw and mow brassicas or rye into my alfalfa and clover, and let it do what it wants. I'll overseed it with buckwheat, and whatever else I find, when the rye is done. Just one permanent plot, always growing something.

 

[Tree Spud]

I need advice on terminating a plot without spraying something to do it.

A plot of alfalfa and red clover at camp is pretty much empty of the alfalfa now. If we want to plant brassicas following this plot, how should we terminate it ?? We have a 2-bottom plow, disks, a spring-tooth harrow, and a PTO driven mower deck that we pull behind the JD. We're not farmers with all kinds of equipment. Will we still need to spray gly or cleth anyway ?? Not worried if some red clover springs back in the brassica plot.

Any advice from you guys that farm is most welcome.

Why would you choose between spraying Gly & doing a major disruption the soil?

Unless you till deep, root and seed bank will come back ...

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Thanks for the help so far guys. I'm probably not understanding things the way you guys do.

The goal is to have a really good plot of turnips, Groundhog radishes, Dwarf Essex rape and Pasja forage brassica. I guess I don't understand how much the remaining alfalfa and red clover will stifle or reduce the success of the brassica mix. There's still a lot of red clover in the plot, so I don't know how much it'll "drown out" the brassicas. The alfalfa is what's REALLY thin. The clover can feed deer through the spring & summer.

Would disking through the clover kill enough of it or thin it enough to give the brassicas a good thick plot ?? Should we disk the plot to get good seed to soil contact ?? Some of those brassica seeds are pretty small - maybe fall too deep into disk slots ??

What would broadcasting the brassica seed mix into the ( mostly clover ) plot and then mowing it do ?? Trying to avoid the extra expense of some other nitrogen-using seed only to mow it down after 2 or 3 months. I'd like to keep as much N in the soil as possible. The camp doesn't want to follow with corn behind the clover / alfalfa plot.

Interested in all you guys have to say !!!

 

[homerj]

Spread brassica seed preferably the day before a heavy rain. Spray gly after spreading seed to suppress clover/alfalfa. Walk away

 

[scott44]

If it were me I'd let it grow until the time you want to plant and do a throw and mow/roll, broadcast the seed into the alfalfa/clover, mow/roll and spray. But seeing how you stated you don't really want to spray I would think going in a week or so before planting and mowing it and then the day of planting lightly disc it, cultipack it, broadcast your seed and cultipack again. If you don't have a cultipacker you can run a atv/utv or anything over it just to pack it down some, brassicas shouldn't be planted more that a 1/4".

 

[Mortenson]

Your mileage may vary, but the few times I've tried to get brassicas growing in an existing clover patch, they haven't grown well. If your goal is to have a "really good plot (of brassicas)" and want to avoid chemical use then you're going to have to be both creative and lucky. Either bust out the iron, eventually making a nice seed bed that'll get the plants outta the gate fast, or try farming green like some of the guys here have experience with. Going green is as much an art as it is science. With bad luck, discing may just result in many weeds and few brassicas, and planting green or crimping etc., I don't know, probably less weeds but the same few brassicas.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

We DO have a nice cultipacker. I forgot to mention it in the 1st post. We don't have an "official" roller or a crimper - just the cultipacker. We may have to mow the clover, seed, then cultipack it and run a gly spray over it. Ideally we like to have 80 to 85% brassicas and 15 to 20% clover if it comes back. We're looking to have LOTS of brassicas in that plot.

Still taking ideas !!

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

We DO have a nice cultipacker. I forgot to mention it in the 1st post. We don't have an "official" roller or a crimper - just the cultipacker. We may have to mow the clover, seed, then cultipack it and run a gly spray over it. Ideally we like to have 80 to 85% brassicas and 15 to 20% clover if it comes back. We're looking to have LOTS of brassicas in that plot.

Still taking ideas !!

Spread the seed before mowing then pack. I would bet the brassicas would out compete the rest of the stuff without spraying but who knows. If you dont want to risk it your going to have to spray.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

^^^^ Will the brassicas get up & over the red clover that may still remain ?? The alfalfa - I'm not worried about. It's all but gone now.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I would assume so but I have no idea how thick your plot is or how fertile the soil is. Anything any of us say is just a guess. Unless one says, "spraying the plot with gly will kill whatever is there or at least stunt it enough to get a leg up."

 

[Bowsnbucks]

^^^^ Thanks S.T. Still a lot of red clover in it. Soil fertility / drainage is pretty good and is a full sun location. The plot was fantastic for 2 or 3 years before the alfalfa thinned out.

If we waited until Aug. 5th - say - and sprayed the plot with gly, then broadcast the brassica seed mix into the red clover around Aug. 10th, how soon would the N from the clover & alfalfa become available for the brassicas ?? ( assuming we didn't disc or otherwise work the soil ). Should we run the cultipacker over after seeding ??

Would this idea work out for a good fall / winter plan ??

 

[scott44]

A couple years ago I tried planting brassicas by rolling a clover plot with a cultipacker without spraying it and all I ended up with was a nice clover plot with hardly ant brassica. The clover I tried this with was pretty thick to start with, I want to try mowing one real short without spraying.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

A couple years ago I tried planting brassicas by rolling a clover plot with a cultipacker without spraying it and all I ended up with was a nice clover plot with hardly ant brassica. The clover I tried this with was pretty thick to start with, I want to try mowing one real short without spraying.

I know that some clovers if mowed after the seed heads mature have a hard time bouncing back and die.

I never fertilize brassicas I just assume there is plenty of N in the soil put there by the clover over the past 3 years (I use a 3 year rotation on clover plots no matter what they look like) and am easily able to grow bigger than softball sized PTT's with an early August planting in Zone 4.

 

[Barndog56]

Bows, the nitrogen from the clover and alfalfa is available immediately. It's available while they're still alive. The only question is how healthy your soil biology is. They will be the ones supplying it to your brassicas.